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Old Today, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Richmond,VA
3,277 posts, read 2,111,502 times
Reputation: 2396

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Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Here is the problem, Pilot. How do you tell the difference between a law abiding citizen, and one, who up until he does something bad is also not on the radar ? I could be a church going, solid citizen one day, and flip out the next and climb a tower and start taking out innocent people. There is no neon sign on anyone's forehead that says " I am not a law abiding citizen, and I am going to start killing people real soon !"

The point you are missing is, NO ONE, not even law abiding citizens NEED certain weapons. No one wants to take away sensible weaponry from American Citizens, but we need to get assault type weapons and multiple round magazines away from anyone who is not in LE or the military. You, or I, do not need a machine gun to protect ourselves.........if you do, you need to hone your shooting skills a little.


If you want to play Rambo, go buy a video game.

Today, it's assault type "weapons" and tomorrow it will be simple hand guns and shotguns. The dRATs are ready to put this country on the slippery slope of eliminating the 2nd Amendment.
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Old Today, 07:50 AM
 
10,506 posts, read 6,370,482 times
Reputation: 5866
Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Here is the problem, Pilot. How do you tell the difference between a law abiding citizen, and one, who up until he does something bad is also not on the radar ? I could be a church going, solid citizen one day, and flip out the next and climb a tower and start taking out innocent people. There is no neon sign on anyone's forehead that says " I am not a law abiding citizen, and I am going to start killing people real soon !"

The point you are missing is, NO ONE, not even law abiding citizens NEED certain weapons. No one wants to take away sensible weaponry from American Citizens, but we need to get assault type weapons and multiple round magazines away from anyone who is not in LE or the military. You, or I, do not need a machine gun to protect ourselves.........if you do, you need to hone your shooting skills a little.


If you want to play Rambo, go buy a video game.

In this incident , wasn't it obvious he wasn't a law abiding citizen ?


You mention sensible weaponry.... and that is what the big issue is now isn't it ?


The latest bill on the House floor wants to ban all semi auto's.... is that sensible to you ?


Is banning a semi auto because it looks scary and has been used in a handful of mass shootings sensible ?


And please define that an "assault type weapon" is ? And why you think they are more dangerous than any other.
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Old Today, 07:51 AM
 
Location: SE UK
8,027 posts, read 6,731,363 times
Reputation: 5444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Seven View Post
What are our gun crime statistics when you leave black on black inner city crime out of the equation? Probably equatable to the rest of the first world.
No they are NOT! and it STILL isn't even close! Besides why leave out black people! LOL, perhaps if you left out black people, blonds, everybody over 5ft 5inches and anybody under the age of 60 it might get a little 'closer'! If we left out the shootings done by black inner city gangs in the UK the rate would be practically zero! We don't just 'leave out' people to try and 'skew' the figures though.
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Old Today, 07:55 AM
 
Location: SE UK
8,027 posts, read 6,731,363 times
Reputation: 5444
Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabchuck View Post
Nice rant, but explain how any more laws would have stopped this incident from happening.
Because having tighter controls when it comes to owning guns reduces the amount of people losing their lives MASSIVELY, this is why the worlds 1st world countries all have a MASSIVELY, HUGELY less amount of people getting shot to death every year! Not slightly less not even a lot less but a MASSIVE amount of difference. This is an un-arguable statistic, the fact that its worked in Australia further proves what is so 'bleedin' obvious' all the more.
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Old Today, 07:56 AM
 
10,506 posts, read 6,370,482 times
Reputation: 5866
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
But the US has 200+ times the amount of death by guns than other 1st world countries so it doesn't work does it!? Its TWO HUNDRED+ times the amount, its not even close, its not even close to being close!

And if you read the data, a handful of counties across our entire nation of 300 plus million people are responsible for 68% of the violence. That right there tells one the problem isn't firearms. First off , we have a violence problem within the ranks of our poorest citizens. That makes up the bulk of it, then secondly we have an issue with a certain demographic of our youth. For whatever reason they can't handle life and decide killing as many as they can is the rational thing to do. This makes up a miniscule percentage of the violence, but gets the most media attention. More kids die a day due to distracted driving then mass shootings, the media doesn't jump on that though.
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Old Today, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
9,985 posts, read 5,571,953 times
Reputation: 8478
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
What difference does that make! You don't think the other 1st world countries don't have inner city crime!? (and you have the cheek to call me dense!). The level of gun crime is so massively, hugely out of sync in the US you simply can't argue about it - its so simple and so obvious that people have to be excessively 'dense' not to see it, in fact the whole 1st world 'see's' it apart from one place. Tighter gun laws = a MASSIVE reduction in people being shot to death, EVERY stat backs this up, EVERY one! We have gangs here, we have crime here, we have hatred, road rage, mentally unhinged people, we have the same humanity as you but we also have TWO HUNDRED AND FITY percent less deaths by gun. Probably THE biggest stat there is - we are talking peoples lives here! And I am supposed to be the dense one!
How many deaths do you have overall? Not just those by guns but overall?

It is very easy to be high and mighty if only one kind of death is addressed but then again, remember the immortal words of Henry Mudd!

MUDD: Worse than that. Do know what the penalty for fraud is on Deneb Five?
SPOCK: The guilty party has his choice. Death by electrocution, death by gas, death by phaser, death by hanging.
MUDD: The key word in your entire peroration, Mister Spock, was, death. Barbarians. Well, of course, I left.

So, just how many people are dying?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
Who's saying that?

How do deeper background checks and restrictions on the types of guns and ammunition available to the general public translate into "disarm[ing] only the law abiding"?

You can still have your precious guns. You just might have to wait a little longer to get them. And you can't have the kind that are capable of shooting dozens of people in 30 seconds.
Back to that (again).

At peak amounts, the required amount of ammo for practice was 400 rifle, 1000 pistol a month. Ammo on the market is more unreliable than gasoline in a hurricane for anything, an incident or change of regulations or threatened change, can dry up supplies in the blink of an eye. So in order to be able to practice, one buys up as often as they can.

My superiors don't expect me to miss. If I am missing, I am expected to go back to the range and practice, practice, practice. If I have to shoot and I miss, hit an innocent bystander........I go to jail.

So I practice. I am the one taking the risk, so I practice to the script I deemed is appropriate. To let someone else say how much ammo I can have means that someone else, who is not there taking the risk, is dictating my actions to me. It might be different in that if I had to shoot and someone unintended got hit because my practice was curtailed, the curtailers went to jail instead........but, of course, we know it does not work that way.

Practice, practice, practice......because even back on JROTC rifle team, we were using 160-200 rounds per shooter per week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don1945 View Post
Here is the problem, Pilot. How do you tell the difference between a law abiding citizen, and one, who up until he does something bad is also not on the radar ? I could be a church going, solid citizen one day, and flip out the next and climb a tower and start taking out innocent people. There is no neon sign on anyone's forehead that says " I am not a law abiding citizen, and I am going to start killing people real soon !"

The point you are missing is, NO ONE, not even law abiding citizens NEED certain weapons. No one wants to take away sensible weaponry from American Citizens, but we need to get assault type weapons and multiple round magazines away from anyone who is not in LE or the military. You, or I, do not need a machine gun to protect ourselves.........if you do, you need to hone your shooting skills a little.

If you want to play Rambo, go buy a video game.
Well, as far as honing my shooting skills, see what I said above.

I don't have a machine gun. I have a number of -15s but for each pull of the trigger, one round is fired. That is not a machine gun.

Multiple round magazines go back at least to the 1800s. Why would anyone want to force a population to live over a century behind in technology?

There are multiple reasons for magazines but I am not sure I can say them here. As a non active LEO, I do not think I should be telling those outside my circle shooting tactics or at least not killing tactics. One thing I can say is that the reason why people empty the magazine is on that first shot, it is so loud, they don't believe the gun has fired. So they fire again and again. Add to it that one shot to a person, even to the heart, may not stop them. They aren't stopped until they retreat or are on the ground. So for a person defending their life, are we saying they should only get one shot?

The final thing is that we have been through this for decades, had what weapons are available to us whittled down and down and still, the other side comes back for more. We don't trust "you" anymore.

Last edited by TamaraSavannah; Today at 08:36 AM..
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Old Today, 07:58 AM
 
Location: USA
18,620 posts, read 9,139,747 times
Reputation: 13987
Most of our gun death statistics are from SUICIDES. The next highest category is inner city Black on Black violence committed by career Felons using guns already illegally. If you remove those two categories with have maybe a few thousand homicides where a gun was used. Out of a country of over 330 MILLION, that's pretty damn good. We need more criminal control, not more gun control.

We already have 22,000 gun laws on the books in the U.S. More will only affect the law abiding. We are not England nor Australia, so don't compare us.
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Old Today, 07:59 AM
 
Location: SE UK
8,027 posts, read 6,731,363 times
Reputation: 5444
This is bollox spouted by 'gun nuts'! There is ONE simple fact - around 30,000+ people get shot to death every year in the US, that's THIRTY THOUSAND + - THIRTY THOUSAND. In the rest of the 1st world its around 100, in the UK its about 70!! A difference SO MASSIVE that you can't seriously argue against it without having your face laughed into! Its a SHAMEFUL amount of people and the US should be ashamed to have that kind of statistic and even more ashamed that it refuses to try and do anything about it! Especially when the answer is so bloody obvious!
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Old Today, 08:01 AM
 
1,420 posts, read 317,415 times
Reputation: 1598
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
No they are NOT! and it STILL isn't even close! Besides why leave out black people! LOL, perhaps if you left out black people, blonds, everybody over 5ft 5inches and anybody under the age of 60 it might get a little 'closer'! If we left out the shootings done by black inner city gangs in the UK the rate would be practically zero! We don't just 'leave out' people to try and 'skew' the figures though.
This person is in the UK and wants to disarm law abiding Americans. LOL. This is literally why the 2A was added to our constitution! Hey easthome, are you an American? If not, mind your business.
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Old Today, 08:02 AM
 
10,506 posts, read 6,370,482 times
Reputation: 5866
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Because having tighter controls when it comes to owning guns reduces the amount of people losing their lives MASSIVELY, this is why the worlds 1st world countries all have a MASSIVELY, HUGELY less amount of people getting shot to death every year! Not slightly less not even a lot less but a MASSIVE amount of difference. This is an un-arguable statistic, the fact that its worked in Australia further proves what is so 'bleedin' obvious' all the more.

The big fail in your assumption is, you are assuming criminals will follow the law....just saying that makes me cringe. Who actually lacks that kind of common sense ?


I've presented you with several articles that refute your "un-arguable " statistic. And again, for the umpteenth time, AU didn't have a high violence rate prior to their mass shooting. And they have been restocking since then... gun ownership is getting higher there.


"We've got more shooters, we've got more firearms, but we've got fewer crimes."

and this is an old article.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-...n-1996/4463150
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