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Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,693 posts, read 653,040 times
Reputation: 1175

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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
BTW the mayor of Copenhagen since 2010 is a Social Democrat, which by American standards would be considered socialist. Bernie Sanders territory.

I've yet to hear why that has not turned Copenhagen into Baltimore.
'Social Democrat' is not the same as 'socialist.' Granted many Americans don't know what these two terms mean, but if someone 'considered' them to be the same, they'd be wrong.

In a 2015 talk at Harvard, the Danish Prime Minister actually chided Bernie Sanders for claiming that Denmark is socialist. The PM said that it is not.

Bernie can be fuzzy about this, but he does appear to be a full-fledged socialist (collective ownership of the means of production). He is member, or at least was, of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA, AOC's group). If you look at their site you'll see that they are full-fledged socialists, not social democrats.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/54169100-post9.html
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Old Yesterday, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,337 posts, read 623,323 times
Reputation: 1842
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMESMH View Post
I would as well.

I’ve never been to Lexington, but I’ve spent a fair amount of time in Louisville, and much more time than that in Denmark.

There are great neighborhoods in Louisville like the Highlands, Cherokee Triangle, Bonnycastle, etc. that are adjacent to or near all that Bardstown Road offers and are also close to a number of parks.

Irish bob is right that the Danish government doesn’t ‘run your life’...certainly nothing like North Korea...but it does intrude more that I prefer.
It's stupid. Kentucky isn't on my short list but to act like there is just absolutely no place nice to live there is ridiculous.

Same for Alabama and MS, I wouldn't want to live in those states either but of course there are some nice parts. You can find nice parts in every single one of our 50 states.

This whole comparison is absurd.

The USA is not and never will be a Socialist country. People need to get over that.

And I know it's nothing like North Korea, lol, but still, there's lots of Government control. Which I would want nothing to do with.
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Old Yesterday, 04:01 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,987 posts, read 21,241,552 times
Reputation: 9508
Because of socialism it doesn't seem like W Europe has the extremes of rich and poor areas that the USA has. There the Londons and Copenhagens subsidize the poorer regions to level the playing field. London is certainly richer than rural England but there is no McDowell County WV (life expectancy in 50s for men, majority are obese) in W Europe. The USA system allows most prosperous people and most prosperous regions to leave poorest regions in the dust. So we are rich on average with large gaps between richest and poorest. Europe is a bit less wealthy (per capita GDP) but has less gaps between richest and poorest. Neither system is perfect or terrible.
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Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM
 
16,065 posts, read 4,242,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
'Social Democrat' is not the same as 'socialist.' Granted many Americans don't know what these two terms mean, but if someone 'considered' them to be the same, they'd be wrong.

In a 2015 talk at Harvard, the Danish Prime Minister actually chided Bernie Sanders for claiming that Denmark is socialist. The PM said that it is not.

Bernie can be fuzzy about this, but he does appear to be a full-fledged socialist (collective ownership of the means of production). He is member, or at least was, of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA, AOC's group). If you look at their site you'll see that they are full-fledged socialists, not social democrats.
Bernie is quite close to the Danish way. The Danish Government has massive programs which created and supports their large industries. No, they are not "owned" by the Government, but without the Government setting policy that allows the Corporations to go worldwide and to prosper (wind energy, for example, shipping also), they never would have risen to the current heights.

Now that Denmark has had so much "Socialist" success they can afford to be a little more free market....but that would not have been possible without "Socialism".

The difference is quite simple really. A Social Democrat believes in "We the People"...in a general sense. That would be a government which was more about the citizens than about Foreign Influence, Money and Corporations.

"Socialism" doesn't really exist full blown but some examples of it might be a Chinese state owned steel or oil company. However, China would also have MANY Capitalist companies in the same industries....and many would be successful.

If the USA were "Social Democrat", chances are we wouldn't sell China our land, corporations and resources to the extent we allow (same with the Saudis, Russians, etc.). We are current "For Sale"....true Democracies would not fit this description.
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Old Yesterday, 04:13 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,693 posts, read 653,040 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
...
The GDP per Capita in Denmark is 58K - 38K in these two states. Put another way, Denmark has a GDP 50% higher.
https://marginalrevolution.com/margi...han-danes.html

Quote:
Of the Nordic groups, Danish-Americans have the highest per capita income, clocking in at $70,925.
Put differently, Danes in America have a 22% higher per capita income than Danes in Denmark. The answer to OP's question is easy. It's culture. Scandinavian culture places high value on hard work, social cohesion, and other things conducive to economic success. /thread!
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Old Yesterday, 04:21 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,693 posts, read 653,040 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Bernie is quite close to the Danish way...
You are wrong, according to the Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen.
https://www.investors.com/politics/c...-it-socialist/

Again, Bernie does have a habit of fuzzing the difference between 'socialist' and 'social democrat,' but he is in fact a true believer, persuaded socialist. See the post I linked above from a knowledgeable poster (and Bernie fan). I asked him this very question, and he gave me the response.

Quote:
His policies are of a social democrat, but deep down he is a socialist.

This isn't me theorizing, this is from his past affiliations and work (he is very old of course) with socialist groups.

He decided around the time he became Mayor to promote social democratic policies to make himself a viable politician, but in terms of end goal he still sees himself as a socialist.

That is why he plays fast and loose with the two terms.
And Bernie is listed on the DSA website as a member. Their list is outdated, so I can't find out whether he's a current member, but that doesn't really matter anyway.
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Old Yesterday, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
9,709 posts, read 7,350,314 times
Reputation: 8367
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
I get what the OP is doing, since there are so many dozen of these kind of what they are trying to spoof here.......the incredibly moronic "liberal city vs some conservative area" threads right wingers...that for some reason the mods keep allowing to be posted ad infinitum.

But Kentucky and WV are landlocked. Maybe make the comparison to Switzerland or something.
I have never seen any of these, unless someone is visiting the "City v City Forum" which I always thought was for comparing living in one v another for folks that are moving.

But expecting this guy, among many absurdists on either side, to have rationality in their decision to start threads ... doesn't seem to extend beyond "hey, I haven't started one in 2 days" or "hey, I don't have any topics on the front page, let me change that!"
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Old Yesterday, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
9,243 posts, read 2,825,309 times
Reputation: 7059
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
'Social Democrat' is not the same as 'socialist.' Granted many Americans don't know what these two terms mean, but if someone 'considered' them to be the same, they'd be wrong.

In a 2015 talk at Harvard, the Danish Prime Minister actually chided Bernie Sanders for claiming that Denmark is socialist. The PM said that it is not.

Bernie can be fuzzy about this, but he does appear to be a full-fledged socialist (collective ownership of the means of production). He is member, or at least was, of the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA, AOC's group). If you look at their site you'll see that they are full-fledged socialists, not social democrats.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/54169100-post9.html
Well, Bernie himself said he is a social democrat so basically he's the same as the social democrats in Denmark.
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Old Yesterday, 04:42 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 16 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,693 posts, read 653,040 times
Reputation: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Well, Bernie himself said he is a social democrat so basically he's the same as the social democrats in Denmark.
No, your link says that he used the term 'democratic socialism,' not 'social democrat.' The two are not the same. The former is socialism ('collective ownership of the means of production'), but just attained via democratic process. The latter is capitalism but with an extensive safety net, which is what Denmark has.

See the website of 'Democratic Socialists of America' for more on democratic socialism. They are true blue, full-fledged socialists. Bernie is, or at least used to be, a member.
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Old Yesterday, 04:42 PM
 
16,065 posts, read 4,242,983 times
Reputation: 11422
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
You are wrong, according to the Danish Prime Minister Rasmussen.

And Bernie is listed on the DSA website as a member. Their list is outdated, so I can't find out whether he's a current member, but that doesn't really matter anyway.
In the end I don't care what the web site says either - or the Danish PM...words are word.

Bernie has been in political office and Ben and Jerrys, although started in his town, aren't state owned.

Bernie used to be on the Radio every week for an hour and most Republicans and Conservatives who would call in would agree with him on most issues. I don't call that "socialist", I call that "we've been screwed by this big money Capitalist system and it's time that we get back to We the People".

It's all on a curve. My current state (MA) is on the Social Democrat scale because we have universal health care and our politicians are generally involved in For The People types of things. As as example, we are the first state to file against the Big Opiate cartel (Perdue) and things like that. Social services, from help with starting a business to the needs of disabled, are more available than in many places. Pot is legal. Even other non-violent crime is not considered "them and us", but rather "how can we teach or reform these people because we are going to have to integrate them back into society"......

Environmental stuff is BIG in Denmark (and in MA.) - there is some corporate responsibility.

MA. would be "to the right" if it were located in Europe...it's all on a scale and it's all relative.

But back to the OP....places like WV and KY are, in the eyes of those who matter (big money), places to be exploited and sold...or, currently to be exploited for politics if not for resources. A "Social Democracy" would cringe at that idea.
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