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Old Yesterday, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,289 posts, read 13,906,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Oh, according to the BLM crowd and Antifa, what the US has been doing via mass incarceration for non-violent offenses may be worse.

But, again, its all a matter of perspective.
Not really. Re-education is fundamentally different to prison.
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I'll say this. No one truly respects a dictatorship. Fear and respect are not the same thing. When I was in middle school and high school. I got bullied alot. The kids that bullied me, I never respected them. I feared some of them. I was smaller than alot of kids. I knew they had alot of size on me and could send me to the hospital. I did fight some of those bullies, to let them know I would stand up. The thing is, I didn't respect them. I feared some of them, but I had no respect for them. I had only hatred and often wished bad things would happen to them.

I bring this up because I want to make that same comparison to the protests, and someone suggesting that Beijing crack down and get really hard with Hong Kong. I thought Americans were suppose to be against Communist governments and their dictatorial crack downs. Next thing you know, we'll have individuals who try to make excuses for the Tiananmen Square massacre. No one really respects a dictator or the violent strongmen out there. People fear such people. When you respect someone, you don't want to let that person down.

Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin. Based on what I know, I have more respect for Merkel than Putin.
When you have a relatively uneducated and poor population who got used to being scolded an beaten by their parents and teachers, democracy cannot really work in a sudden. China is not rooted in a Protestant culture which promotes personal choices.
In addition, China is a typical meritocracy. Many things considered normal in the US are actually perceived unfair in China.
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Old Yesterday, 02:56 PM
 
6,753 posts, read 6,668,011 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post

But the way we have some complaining about how bad the PRC is, they wouldn't even need this "treaty" to disappear someone from Hong Kong into mainland China.
That is another thing. Don't tell me CIA never did that.
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Old Yesterday, 03:01 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,457 posts, read 6,498,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Not really. Re-education is fundamentally different to prison.
Those who are imprisoned and then marked for life with records (and then have to turn to a life of crime as they can't find honest work, which has generational and cruel impacts on communities) are often worse off than people who have been "re-educated." I've seen first hand the impact that mass incarceration for non violent crimes has had on my community. It ain't pretty.
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Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,289 posts, read 13,906,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Those who are imprisoned and then marked for life with records (and then have to turn to a life of crime as they can't find honest work, which has generational and cruel impacts on communities) are often worse off than people who have been "re-educated."
I guess if you think being a rapist is the same as being a muslim, then you would think that - "perspective" saves the day again.
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Old Yesterday, 03:06 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,457 posts, read 6,498,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
I guess if you think being a rapist is the same as being a muslim, then you would think that - "perspective"saves the day again.
I guess you think that being a rapist is the same as someone who has committed a non-violent crime
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Old Yesterday, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,289 posts, read 13,906,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I guess you think that being a rapist is the same as someone who has committed a non-violent crime
Theft is violent crime in my opinion.

Do you think being a muslim is the same as being a thief?
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Old Yesterday, 03:10 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,457 posts, read 6,498,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Theft is violent crime in my opinion.

Do you think being a thief is the same as being a muslim?
I'm referring to non-violent criminals (as I made clear a few posts ago), mainly drug offenses, which have resulted in countless black men being locked up and having records to their names. Then there were all the people who committed non violent offenses who were swept up in the zero tolerance crackdowns of the 1990s.

My point is that there are problems with any system. That doesn't mean that one system is inherently worse than the other or that one system is more strongly supported/right for that people than another system.
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Old Yesterday, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,289 posts, read 13,906,878 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I'm referring to non-violent criminals (as I made clear a few posts ago), mainly drug offenses, which have resulted in countless black men being locked up and having records to their names. Then there were all the people who committed non violent offenses who were swept up in the zero tolerance crackdowns of the 1990s.
Sure - have a debate about the pros and cons of imprisonment for non violent offenses.

That's very different to re-education due to religious or political beliefs.

Re education does mean that one system is worse.
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Old Yesterday, 03:18 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,457 posts, read 6,498,986 times
Reputation: 12031
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
Sure - have a debate about the pros and cons of imprisonment for non violent offenses.

That's very different to re-education due to religious or political beliefs
Very different but arguably more devastating.

And, let's be clear. The PRC is engaging in these re-education camps due to years of dealing with terrorist attacks in certain regions of the country by radical Islamists who were specifically targeting Han Chinese people. They are not just merely choosing to engage in "re-education" for the hell of it.

Still, I can admit that its a problem and not the approach that I would take. But, again, every country and society has its problems.
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