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Old Today, 02:29 PM
 
48,848 posts, read 45,845,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I don’t know why chinese agents don’t stop the five top protest leaders from leaving HK to go to universities in the us and Britain. Arrest them for subversion and bring them into china and throw them in jail. No foreign university study for traitors. Why are chinese so wimpy when it comes to dealing with bad elements? They should learn from the Russians. If Russia owned HK, these protests would have been crushed weeks ago. The west may hate Russia, but they fear and respect Russia. The west neither fear nor like nor respect China. Stupid Chinese.
I don't have any respect for Russia's government either. I don't have any respect for dictatorships. I'm someone whom if I was in a dictatorship, these are the things I would be doing.

1) Fleeing that country whenever the opportunity presents itself.
2) Participating in protests against said dictatorship. In the case of a dictatorship, it's worth dying for to try and topple that government.

And something else. Russia has protests all the time. Putin's government is swift in crushing protests. It doesn't stop Russians from forming new protests.

I support Hong Kong protests. This is what I think should happen for Hong Kong. Hong Kong should be its own city-state, like Singapore.

In the case of Hong Kong, Beijing might be reluctant to let go of one of China's cash cows. Hong Kong is part of the "one country, two systems" deal. China likely has let Hong Kong keep its own economic system for the money purposes. Beijing is likely to crack down on protests in Mainland China. And in China, the crackdown is on anything that is anti-government, or perceived to be such. China will crack down. The question is who is China more likely to crack down on and why?
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Old Today, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Top of the South, NZ
17,287 posts, read 13,902,207 times
Reputation: 5624
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Hell, if you listen to the loud Black Lives Matter and Antifa protests, you'd think that the USA was a terrorist, authoritarian regime. Those protesters may not like things (that's fine), but the bulk of our country is fine with how the system works, and those few don't get to radically alter things for the rest of us just because they are loud.
If the US was sending people to re-education camps, I'd agree
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Old Today, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
10,106 posts, read 6,710,139 times
Reputation: 6416
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Anyone with a decent objective sense knows that the protests are instigated and supported by us and British elements bent on subverting Chinese rule in HK. Chan is a real chinese patriot and so his position is not surprising. Good for him. HK belongs to China, period. Don’t like it, get out.
Oh puhleeze. That's the old, lamest accusation around.

Nope, the protesters were really and truly grassroots and local.

Chan's position on disparaging democracy and openness in Hong Kong is not new, and he has lost a lot of popularity with his fellow HKers because of that.

Sure, Beijing can do with it what it wants. But if they want to keep it prosperous, they should be careful - your chest-beating bravado notwithstanding.
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Old Today, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
10,106 posts, read 6,710,139 times
Reputation: 6416
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I don’t know why chinese agents don’t stop the five top protest leaders from leaving HK to go to universities in the us and Britain. Arrest them for subversion and bring them into china and throw them in jail. No foreign university study for traitors. Why are chinese so wimpy when it comes to dealing with bad elements? They should learn from the Russians. If Russia owned HK, these protests would have been crushed weeks ago. The west may hate Russia, but they fear and respect Russia. The west neither fear nor like nor respect China. Stupid Chinese.
I hope you're getting more than your 5 jiao for this post.
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Old Today, 02:35 PM
 
48,848 posts, read 45,845,696 times
Reputation: 15527
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Oh puhleeze. That's the old, lamest accusation around.

Nope, the protesters were really and truly grassroots and local.

Chan's position on disparaging democracy and openness in Hong Kong is not new, and he has lost a lot of popularity with his fellow HKers there.

Sure, Beijing can do with it what it wants. But if they want to keep it going, they should be careful - your chest beating bravado notwithstanding.
Chan once said that America was the most corrupt country in the world. Jackie Chan literally has no respect for countries that have democratic institutions. His comments toward Hong Kong is just the tip of the iceberg.

Beijing could crack down, and it's known to crack down on mainland China. If the Chinese government cracks down on Hong Kong, what do you think will happen next? Just your insight.
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Old Today, 02:41 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,437 posts, read 6,489,580 times
Reputation: 12018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboteer View Post
True. And this remained true until a few years after Xi Jinping took power. He needed those years to gain control over the Chinese power structures, military etc, (which is not an automatic progression like it is in the United States). But once he got it, he began cracking down. Now Chinese citizens can no longer invest more than trivial amounts overseas, Chinese media is becoming more and more heavily censored, market restrictions are returning with a vengeance etc. And there is nothing to stop Xi from continuing his reversals of Deng's programs of freedom.

And more and more Chinese subjects are rapidly becoming LESS happy. But it's too late for them to do anything about it.

Not that there ever was anything they could do. They have always been totally subject to the will and whims of whatever leader in is power... a leader they did not elect.

They got lucky for a while with Deng Xiaoping. But their luck has now turned... and they know it.
You're right, the positions of power within the PRC (chair of the central military commission, chairman/general secretary of the communist party, etc.) are not necessarily held by the president of the PRC. But they have been for the last two presidents, with the exception of some overlap between Jiang Zemin turning over the central military commission to Hu Jintao after Jintao took office as president.

And whether it has taken a year or two for some titles to revert to the "leader" of the PRC, the leader of the PRC has always eventually gotten those titles (and it was never a terribly long wait). Xi Jinping is not the first to hold all of those positions, not that you're claiming such.

China remains incredible stable, and many appreciate stability.
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Old Today, 02:41 PM
 
6,750 posts, read 6,666,170 times
Reputation: 2390
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I don't have any respect for Russia's government either. I don't have any respect for dictatorships. I'm someone whom if I was in a dictatorship, these are the things I would be doing.

1) Fleeing that country whenever the opportunity presents itself.
2) Participating in protests against said dictatorship. In the case of a dictatorship, it's worth dying for to try and topple that government.

And something else. Russia has protests all the time. Putin's government is swift in crushing protests. It doesn't stop Russians from forming new protests.

I support Hong Kong protests. This is what I think should happen for Hong Kong. Hong Kong should be its own city-state, like Singapore.

In the case of Hong Kong, Beijing might be reluctant to let go of one of China's cash cows. Hong Kong is part of the "one country, two systems" deal. China likely has let Hong Kong keep its own economic system for the money purposes. Beijing is likely to crack down on protests in Mainland China. And in China, the crackdown is on anything that is anti-government, or perceived to be such. China will crack down. The question is who is China more likely to crack down on and why?
So far Beijing government has not really interfered in any direct way. Cash cow? Even Shanghai has a higher GDP than Hong Kong now. Hong Kong is not that important.

The whole thing started with the proposed extradition treaty with mainland China. Even though the proposed treaty makes it very clear that political prisoners are not included, those protesters want to throw it all instead of making it better.

Why shouldn't a murderer who escaped to HK be sent back to mainland China? It does not make any sense. Such a treaty is good for both sides.
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Old Today, 02:44 PM
 
48,848 posts, read 45,845,696 times
Reputation: 15527
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
I hope you're getting more than your 5 jiao for this post.
I'll say this. No one truly respects a dictatorship. Fear and respect are not the same thing. When I was in middle school and high school. I got bullied alot. The kids that bullied me, I never respected them. I feared some of them. I was smaller than alot of kids. I knew they had alot of size on me and could send me to the hospital. I did fight some of those bullies, to let them know I would stand up. The thing is, I didn't respect them. I feared some of them, but I had no respect for them. I had only hatred and often wished bad things would happen to them.

I bring this up because I want to make that same comparison to the protests, and someone suggesting that Beijing crack down and get really hard with Hong Kong. I thought Americans were suppose to be against Communist governments and their dictatorial crack downs. Next thing you know, we'll have individuals who try to make excuses for the Tiananmen Square massacre. No one really respects a dictator or the violent strongmen out there. People fear such people. When you respect someone, you don't want to let that person down.

Angela Merkel and Vladimir Putin. Based on what I know, I have more respect for Merkel than Putin.
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Old Today, 02:44 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,437 posts, read 6,489,580 times
Reputation: 12018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe90 View Post
If the US was sending people to re-education camps, I'd agree
Oh, according to the BLM crowd and Antifa, what the US has been doing via mass incarceration for non-violent offenses may be worse.

But, again, its all a matter of perspective.
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Old Today, 02:48 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 12 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,437 posts, read 6,489,580 times
Reputation: 12018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
So far Beijing government has not really interfered in any direct way. Cash cow? Even Shanghai has a higher GDP than Hong Kong now. Hong Kong is not that important.

The whole thing started with the proposed extradition treaty with mainland China. Even though the proposed treaty makes it very clear that political prisoners are not included, those protesters want to throw it all instead of making it better.

Why shouldn't a murderer who escaped to HK be sent back to mainland China? It does not make any sense. Such a treaty is good for both sides.
Right. Its really foolish this opposition when you consider the terms of the treaty.

Also, it just goes to show you how much the PRC is willing to accept and respect the One Country, Two System deal as it went about that process the right way, working with the HK Legislature as well as with the the PRC Congress.

But the way we have some complaining about how bad the PRC is, they wouldn't even need this "treaty" to disappear someone from Hong Kong into mainland China.
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