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View Poll Results: Opinion on illegal immigration/border security
Open up the border, let them all in, drugs/human trafficking as well. 1 0.49%
Secure the border, deport the "bad hombre's", offer path to citizenship for balance 69 33.50%
Secure the border, deport all illegals. 125 60.68%
Other, explain in response. 11 5.34%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-20-2019, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,178 posts, read 4,539,926 times
Reputation: 1452

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Deport everyone for whom it is the case, that all eight great-grandparents were born in the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
WTH are you talking about? If one is born in this country to citizen or legal immigrant parents why should they be deported?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
Do you really want an honest answer to that question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Should I offer one?
You could, I'm sure as you are the one advocating for deporting u.s. citizens, not really realizing if a list like that was ever composed, you'd be on it.

Oldglory asked why? I thought because we're not suppose to like Jews, Muslims, Japanese, Germans, Latinos, (flavor of the day), etc. so it matters not as to whether or not they were born here and are a u.s citizen, we deport those we do not like ... More importantly, we deport those that the Government (of the day) doesn't like ...

The U.S. Deported a Million of Its Own Citizens to Mexico During the Great Depression

"Up to 1.8 million people of Mexican descent—most of them American-born—were rounded up in informal raids and deported in an effort to reserve jobs for white people."

So what is happening today has happened before and here is why all of us, as all of us have an ethnic background not of the u.s., should sit up and take notice.

Jews Should Be Horrified That Trump Is Revoking Latino Citizenship

"Writing for the majority, Justice Hugo Black concluded, “Citizenship is no light trifle… In some instances, loss of citizenship can mean that a man [sic] is left without the protection of citizenship in any country in the world…The very nature of our free government makes it completely incongruous to have a rule of law under which a group of citizens temporarily in office can deprive another group of citizens of their citizenship. We hold that the Fourteenth Amendment was designed to, and does, protect every citizen of this Nation against a congressional forcible destruction of his citizenship, whatever his creed, color, or race.”
<snip>
The Trump administration’s initial forays into denaturalization may not feel yet like major cause for alarm. But Jewish history suggests otherwise.

Practices that affect only a small number of citizens today may serve as trial balloons for later large-scale attempts to rescind the citizenship of naturalized citizens, especially those who voice opinions critical of the government; and to question the citizenship of every Latinx American born in a border state." (my emphasis)

Deporting US Citizens: Trump’s New Fascistic Use of Law

"For years right-wing pundits have harped upon the importance of coming to the United States legally — “doing it the right way.” But if they mean what they say, then how can they support the denial of citizenship to documented Latinxs who were born in the US?" (my emphasis)


Easy ... when the government wants to set a precedents. So be careful what you wish for, ohio_peasant.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,178 posts, read 4,539,926 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
What do you do with someone who was brought across the border as an infant, grew up in the US, does not speak Spanish, and knows nothing of Mexico. And (say) grows up to be a straight A student, pre-med, and all around solid (non) citizen? Send her back to Mexico? Seriously?
And here is what that looks like:

The Deported Americans
More than 600,000 U.S.-born children of undocumented parents live in Mexico. What happens when you return to a country you’ve never known?
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:04 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
4,815 posts, read 2,236,272 times
Reputation: 7193
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohioaninsc View Post
Work on securing the boarder (not with a stupid wall...but better technology like drones) and only deport those that commit crimes...have a pathway to citizenship for every one that is currently here illegally and then make it much simpler to get approved to immigrate here legally.
What's wrong with a wall AND drones? And what will the drones be used for--to watch on camera as they scamper across the unguarded border? For something so stupid, a wall prevented China from falling to the Mongol hordes and Israel from being blown to bits from suicide bombers on the north or swamped by illegals from the south.

Offering citizenship to those here illegally now just encourages more to come; they just need to forge the documents proving they were here from the cut-off date. And each new citizen will sponsor their entire family. It's not sustainable.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:48 AM
 
37,811 posts, read 16,719,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
What's wrong with a wall AND drones? And what will the drones be used for--to watch on camera as they scamper across the unguarded border? For something so stupid, a wall prevented China from falling to the Mongol hordes and Israel from being blown to bits from suicide bombers on the north or swamped by illegals from the south.

Offering citizenship to those here illegally now just encourages more to come; they just need to forge the documents proving they were here from the cut-off date. And each new citizen will sponsor their entire family. It's not sustainable.
It's obvious that those who call walls ineffective or stupid just don't want them on the border because they know they work and they don't want to deter the flow of illegal aliens into our country for whatever their agenda is. You're right, drones won't stop them from crossing. They will only spot them doing so. Once across our border they will then claim asylum and we are stuck with them.

I also agree with you that offering illegal aliens legalization or a path to citizenship just encourages more to come in the future. We tried that back in 1986 and that's exactly what happened.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:57 AM
 
37,811 posts, read 16,719,726 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
What do you do with someone who was brought across the border as an infant, grew up in the US, does not speak Spanish, and knows nothing of Mexico. And (say) grows up to be a straight A student, pre-med, and all around solid (non) citizen? Send her back to Mexico? Seriously?
What do you mean they don't speak Spanish? They learn Spanish from their parents. How do you think they communicate with their parents from infancy up till they enter our schools? So what, if they don't know Mexico? Mexican culture is still practiced in their homes. Their parents didn't know the U.S. either when they came here illegally but they adjusted. That's a lame argument. I imagine that they still have relatives in Mexico also.

Doesn't matter how well they performed in our schools they are still here illegally. If they want to make the U.S. their home then they need to go back to their homelands and apply to come back here legally. No jumping ahead of the line and allowing them to remain here rewards their parents for bringing them here illegally. What would you do with her parents who were the law breakers? Can't have that separation of families thingy, now can we? So what do we do allow the entire family to remain here?
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:30 AM
 
37,811 posts, read 16,719,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
I would say #2 is too lenient, and #3 is too harsh, although I think the whole thing about securing the Southern border is a waste of energy due to visa overstays and whatnot. So I guess I'm going to say #4 (Other.)

I think we need to do the following:
-Deport the illegal/undocumented immigrants with criminal records. Others should self-deport.
-Get serious about enforcing rules about companies hiring illegal/undocumented immigrants. I'm beyond furious that hard working Americans were replaced with illegal/undocumented immigrants because the former wanted humane working conditions, in the recent ICE raid in Mississippi for example. We need to get serious about labor issues, and stop trying to fight unionization so much. This will cut down on illegal/undocumented immigrants being able to find work.
-It's far too difficult to get low skill immigrant labor legally. Sometimes these workers are needed. Make it much easier for seasonal workers and other such laborers from other countries to work in the US.
-I'm good with DACA, because it isn't the kids' fault.
WTH does securing our border from the hundreds of thousand of those who jump our border illegally every year have to do with the visa over stayers? They are two separate and different problems that have to be dealt with differently.

Most of them are guilty of felony ID theft or tax evasion. So whom does that leave left? I do agree that the employers are a part of the problem and that they need to be held accountable. The other problem is that not all illegals are coming here to work. As long as they can get birthright citizenship for their U.S. born kids and benefits through them they will still come. Going after the employers will not stop criminals or terrorists from slipping through our southern border either. That's where the good walls are necessary.

We already have visas for seasonal workers but there are more that want to come here than we can use and supply visas for.

I'm not good with DACA and I already explained why in a previous post. Kids shouldn't benefit from their parents law breaking.
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Old 08-21-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Right here; Right now
9,178 posts, read 4,539,926 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaphawoman View Post
What's wrong with a wall AND drones? And what will the drones be used for--to watch on camera as they scamper across the unguarded border? For something so stupid, a wall prevented China from falling to the Mongol hordes and Israel from being blown to bits from suicide bombers on the north or swamped by illegals from the south.

Offering citizenship to those here illegally now just encourages more to come; they just need to forge the documents proving they were here from the cut-off date. And each new citizen will sponsor their entire family. It's not sustainable.
Quote:
What's wrong with a wall AND drones?
The wall, not cost effective, not effective at all for keeping out the drugs and weapons (where most come in at) from the legal points of entries ... by air, by rail ...

Knowing this as some do, we have to wonder, what is the real purpose of a wall? With eminent domain people living on the boarder with acreage will have parts of their property seized by the government and they need access gates in order to come and go on their land ... that can't be right.

Drones? I'm not sure that any one would have an issue with them, unless they object to being a u.s. citizen caught in surveillance, where as they may have privacy issues, as well as, when they put in their codes at the gate to come and go from home, the government has a log of it.

Quote:
a wall prevented China from falling to the Mongol hordes and Israel from being blown to bits from suicide bombers on the north or swamped by illegals from the south.
Yes, all the cool countries have one, we must have one too. I call it u.s. wall envy.


PS: Do you really want to live in a country where your liberties are constantly being compromised by the government making their claims and snow balling you into believing the untruths, and selling you a bill of goods? When I see people buying the government's bull ... my conclusion is, 'I guess they do'.
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Old 08-21-2019, 01:34 PM
 
8,160 posts, read 5,173,088 times
Reputation: 13912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellis Bell View Post
You could, I'm sure as you are the one advocating for deporting u.s. citizens, not really realizing if a list like that was ever composed, you'd be on it. ...
I view the United States of America not as a "country" in the proper sense, but a place to do business, to advance one's education, to file patents, to buy real-estate, to seek or to give advice, to advance the scientific frontier, to publish books, to make art. It is impossible to be "American", any more than it is possible to Starbucksian, or Peet's Coffeeian. The US is a sort of coffeehouse to the world, rather than a "home". People come to a coffeehouse to think, to write, to drink coffee - not to be, ahem, citizens.

By this reasoning, there are no US citizens whatsoever. There are only guests, just like there are guests at Starbucks (and not "citizens of Starbucks"). In my scheme, guests get several generations over which to build their family wealth, their business or whatnot. And then they have to leave. Four generations seems to be sufficiently long. Anyone for whom it is the case, that all eight grandparents were US citizens, loses his or her citizenship, and gets some modern form of the Nansen passport. Then, I suppose that after some period of banishment, the person could return, restarting the clock as a fresh guest.

Notice the detail of what I'm saying: people get deported not because they're "too foreign", but on the contrary, because they're not foreign enough. The first to go, would be those who have an ancestor who came over on the Mayflower.
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Old 08-21-2019, 03:58 PM
 
37,811 posts, read 16,719,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
I view the United States of America not as a "country" in the proper sense, but a place to do business, to advance one's education, to file patents, to buy real-estate, to seek or to give advice, to advance the scientific frontier, to publish books, to make art. It is impossible to be "American", any more than it is possible to Starbucksian, or Peet's Coffeeian. The US is a sort of coffeehouse to the world, rather than a "home". People come to a coffeehouse to think, to write, to drink coffee - not to be, ahem, citizens.

By this reasoning, there are no US citizens whatsoever. There are only guests, just like there are guests at Starbucks (and not "citizens of Starbucks"). In my scheme, guests get several generations over which to build their family wealth, their business or whatnot. And then they have to leave. Four generations seems to be sufficiently long. Anyone for whom it is the case, that all eight grandparents were US citizens, loses his or her citizenship, and gets some modern form of the Nansen passport. Then, I suppose that after some period of banishment, the person could return, restarting the clock as a fresh guest.

Notice the detail of what I'm saying: people get deported not because they're "too foreign", but on the contrary, because they're not foreign enough. The first to go, would be those who have an ancestor who came over on the Mayflower.
Oh my God I don't believe what I have just read.
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Old 08-21-2019, 07:17 PM
 
24,858 posts, read 12,240,219 times
Reputation: 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump View Post
I think there should be no age. Get them an attorney. Like I say what pipe dreams and what feasible - deport 16mil not in your lifetime
It can happen. Eisenhower instituted Operation We$back.
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