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Old 08-21-2019, 11:49 AM
 
16,872 posts, read 4,420,594 times
Reputation: 11748

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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Are you referring to the Haredim (ultra-Orthodox) or Chasidic Jews? Like the folks in Kiryas Joel, NY?

Oh, the Haredim and their exemptions from military service are a pretty controversial topic in Israel. There are a number of political parties in Israel, across different political spectrums, that want to do away with that exemption.

Well, the Haredi also have pull as well - and demographically, their high birthrate/large familes will pretty much ensure that they'll be important politically too - and that's no small thing given the fractured electoral politics of Israel and the need to build coalitions.
Well, as you know, there are many sects - some built around a single Rabbi. He is their messenger from the Lord and that is that.

In Israel these are many of the settlers....
"An estimated 118,000 ultra-Orthodox Jews now live in settlements such as Beitar Illit and Modi’in Illit."

"While the ultra-Orthodox make up around 10 percent of the population among all Israelis, they now count for a third of those in the West Bank, which many Israelis refer to by its biblical name, Judea and Samaria."

As to the American sects, many of them are even "anti-Israel" (anti-Zionist) in the sense that perhaps the Rabbi they followed is, again, the Dear Leader and whatever he says is the real deal. That is the way these things work - they are authoritarian cultures.

One would have to go sect by sect or settlement by settlement to get an idea of where their loyalties lie. Any way you look at it, tho, these people are a minority of Jews (people who are, by tradition, Jews).

In the USA some of the Orthodox vote Blue. Trump only got 54% of American Orthodox Jews - when you consider that many (most?) of them are NYC based in one way or another, that's not as much as one might expect. They are male-centric, commerce based and "conservative"....
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Camberville
12,184 posts, read 16,950,833 times
Reputation: 20108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Oh, it bothers you that a gentile decides who is a "good Jew" Would it bother you to know that your fellow liberals have called me a "bad Jew," a Hitler child, and, most recently, "not a real Jew"? And why? Because I support Israel! How upside down is that?

Are my fellow liberals the President of the United States?


While I'm sorry that's happened to you, I can't help but notice you see antisemitism in everything except for the when the leader of our nation is the perpetrator and his supporters remain silent.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:58 AM
 
13,700 posts, read 4,128,116 times
Reputation: 4066
Democrats: Republicans being for Jews is anti-Semitic, and being against Jews is anti-Semitic.

What Trump really said is some Jews are loyal to a Democrat party that tolerates and defends anti-Jewish and anti-Israel politicians. And that's exactly right.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
26,797 posts, read 63,711,406 times
Reputation: 31164
You want people to generalize about tens of millions of Jewish people as if they are all the same?

How absurd is that?

Some may, Some will not. Some don't care. Probably some are at every possible level of between as well.

Will one Jewish person walk away form the Democratic party? Certainly. Ten? Undoubtedly. Ten million? Not likely. Jewish people are not clones of each other. They do not all think and act as a single entity. They are people, just like any other people and their positions, views and proclivities vary.
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Old 08-21-2019, 11:59 AM
 
9,540 posts, read 17,617,880 times
Reputation: 10580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Oh, it bothers you that a gentile decides who is a "good Jew" Would it bother you to know that your fellow liberals have called me a "bad Jew," a Hitler child, and, most recently, "not a real Jew"? And why? Because I support Israel! How upside down is that?
If your real-Jews comment was directed at me, you misrepresented it. Here's what I said, "Real Jews value Tsedaka and the concept of caring for those in need, which is the antithesis of the Republican party, the party of hypocrites." Am I wrong about that?

Which party is trying to cut social services?
Which party is fighting mightily against helping refugees from Central America?
Which party is against LGBT/trans people?
Which party is against public schools?
Which party is against women's rights?

Answer: REPUBLICANS.

Your ancestors were most likely in desperate need when they immigrated to the US. And now that you're here, you want to burn the bridge so others cannot follow. Where is the Tsedaka in that?
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:02 PM
 
13,700 posts, read 4,128,116 times
Reputation: 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdog View Post
If your real-Jews comment was directed at me, you misrepresented it. Here's what I said, "Real Jews value Tsedaka and the concept of caring for those in need, which is the antithesis of the Republican party, the party of hypocrites." Am I wrong about that?

Which party is trying to cut social services?
Which party is fighting mightily against helping refugees from Central America?
Which party is against LGBT/trans people?
Which party is against public schools?
Which party is against women's rights?

Answer: REPUBLICANS.

Your ancestors were most likely in desperate need when they immigrated to the US. And now that you're here, you want to burn the bridge so others cannot follow. Where is the Tsedaka in that?
Yes. America is not the welfare state for the world. Practice what you preach. Use your money, use Israel to be a welfare state for the world, then come back and tell us how it worked out for you.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:13 PM
 
5,771 posts, read 2,133,733 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
...You have ELECTED OFFICIALS right in the Democrat Party who are blatantly anti-Semitic, partner with anti-Semitic groups that libel Jews, and whom other Democrats are whitewashing.

Wrong. Disagreement with the Israeli government's policy towards and treatment of Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. You can be both pro-Jewish people and pro-Palestine people simultaneously.
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:19 PM
 
13,700 posts, read 4,128,116 times
Reputation: 4066
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
Wrong. Disagreement with the Israeli government's policy towards and treatment of Palestinians is not anti-Semitism. You can be both pro-Jewish people and pro-Palestine people simultaneously.
So democrats say you can have 'triple loyalty' and that's good. Can you be pro-America and pro-Israel at the same time or is that anti-Semitic 'dual loyalty' like democrats lairs and propagandist are trying to claim?
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
10,276 posts, read 6,785,388 times
Reputation: 6542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70 View Post
The issue is that even if many Jews in these blue states vote Red there are still many Democrat votes in NY, NJ and California from the illegal immigrants, the black racists and from white liberals and yuppies.

More importantly, though, is that I hope the Jewish power brokers in the media and Hollywood finally loosen up on the pro-liberal propaganda and reporting and perhaps start instructing their subordinates in the media to perhaps report more favorably on President Trump and other Republicans and less favorably on Democrats, including AOC and Pocahontas who are anti-Israel. Most of the media is Jewish owned and these Jewish owners have the power to instruct their journalists and reports to show less of an anti-Republican and anti-Trump bias.
See the bolded. Rachel976, if someone who had a different political view than yours said this, you would be all over that person calling them anti-Semitic and trading in old stereotypes. So what do you say to this poster in question?
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Old 08-21-2019, 12:34 PM
 
5,771 posts, read 2,133,733 times
Reputation: 7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
So democrats say you can have 'triple loyalty' and that's good. Can you be pro-America and pro-Israel at the same time or is that anti-Semitic 'dual loyalty' like democrats lairs and propagandist are trying to claim?

What does being pro-Israeli people or pro-Palestinian people have to do with national loyalty?

As an American citizen I have loyalty to America but I can also support the well-being of all humans anywhere on the whole planet. It's not that difficult.
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