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Old 08-25-2019, 04:23 PM
 
4,275 posts, read 878,259 times
Reputation: 3210

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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
I heard talk host Dennis Prager talking about this recently. He said that most Jews in the US now are non-practicing. As I recall he said that they are "liberals first, Jews second," and that is his primary explanation for why so many remain loyal to the Democratic party, even in the face of Dem. anti-Semitism. I am not even Jewish, and the anti-Semitism has driven even me out of official membership.

Even so, I noticed recently that the local Rush Limbaugh station (KTTH AM 770) has starting at 12 noon Michael Medved, Jason Rantz (local host), Ben Shapiro, and finally Mark Levin from 9-midnight. All are Jewish. As someone posted earlier, there is a shift underway, but these things happen over decades, not overnight.
Right on target! For these non-practicing Jews, their liberalism trumps their Judaism. While there are always exceptions, that is why Reform Jews (yum, shrimp!) vote Dem and Orthodox vote Republican.

As to why the Democrats defend antisemitism among their own elected officials, or at the minimum tolerate it, (such as we see with Omar and Tlaib), the author of the piece linked below surmises it is precisely because Jews are so beholden to liberalism that the Dems feel they can get away with it. It's a calculation that they are more likely to save or capture the votes of the Jew-haters on the left (and there are MANY) by justifying or excusing away Democratic antisemites than they are to lose the votes of Jews on the left by failing to take a strong stand against Jew-hate.

Never was this more apparent than when Pelosi and crew were afraid to condemn antisemitism, or censure Omar, following her "Benjamin's" remark. They knew, unfortunate as it is, they they might anger their anti-Jew base were they to call her out, as was warranted, and, at the same time, knew that Jews would stick with them despite their watered down resolution (which, ironically, Omar described as a resolution condemning anti-Muslimism).

https://spectator.org/the-calming-fe...emocrat-party/
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:30 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,939 posts, read 17,130,034 times
Reputation: 23231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Right on target! For these non-practicing Jews, their liberalism trumps their Judaism. While there are always exceptions, that is why Reform Jews (yum, shrimp!) vote Dem and Orthodox vote Republican.

As to why the Democrats defend antisemitism among their own elected officials, or at the minimum tolerate it, (such as we see with Omar and Tlaib), the author of the piece linked below surmises it is precisely because Jews are so beholden to liberalism that the Dems feel they can get away with it. It's a calculation that they are more likely to save or capture the votes of the Jew-haters on the left (and there are MANY) by justifying or excusing away Democratic antisemites than they are to lose the votes of Jews on the left by failing to take a strong stand against Jew-hate.

Never was this more apparent than when Pelosi and crew were afraid to condemn antisemitism, or censure Omar, following her "Benjamin's" remark. They knew, unfortunate as it is, they they might anger their anti-Jew base were they to call her out, as was warranted, and, at the same time, knew that Jews would stick with them despite their watered down resolution (which, ironically, Omar described as a resolution condemning anti-Muslimism).

https://spectator.org/the-calming-fe...emocrat-party/
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:42 PM
 
4,275 posts, read 878,259 times
Reputation: 3210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:44 PM
Status: "unless there is no "there" there." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,380 posts, read 797,581 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
I don't think you understand the situation.

Most "conservative" Jew talk show hosts are simply entertainers...doing it for the money. This is the era where you can fake that you are one thing or another and make millions doing it.

The people you mention have zero to do with being Jewish and everything to do with being actors.

No shift is underway. From the start of time people have been paid to put forward certain opinions. As one guy said to Tucker (and he refused to air it)..."Y'all are Millionaires being paid by Billionaires to say what they want you to".

As far as "liberals first"...again, you don't get it. Our training means one must be a "liberal", just as a Jesuit Priest must help the poor and others. You could say the same thing about Quakers "Liberals and Pacifists first and Christians second"........but that would be just as crazy.

One thing informs the others.

"Tikkun olam ” (Hebrew for “world repair”) has come to connote social action and the pursuit of social justice. The phrase has origins in classical rabbinic literature and in Lurianic kabbalah, a major strand of Jewish mysticism originating with the work of the 16th-century kabbalist Isaac Luria."
What would be your evidence, that (say) Michael Medved does not believe what he says and writes? You're basically accusing him of being a lying sack of stuff. What's your evidence of that?
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:47 PM
 
9,150 posts, read 4,089,325 times
Reputation: 1804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?
What worries me much more than this is there aren't enough Russia haters in the republican party.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,677 posts, read 12,331,584 times
Reputation: 33248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Right on target! For these non-practicing Jews, their liberalism trumps their Judaism. While there are always exceptions, that is why Reform Jews (yum, shrimp!) vote Dem and Orthodox vote Republican.

As to why the Democrats defend antisemitism among their own elected officials, or at the minimum tolerate it, (such as we see with Omar and Tlaib), the author of the piece linked below surmises it is precisely because Jews are so beholden to liberalism that the Dems feel they can get away with it. It's a calculation that they are more likely to save or capture the votes of the Jew-haters on the left (and there are MANY) by justifying or excusing away Democratic antisemites than they are to lose the votes of Jews on the left by failing to take a strong stand against Jew-hate.

Never was this more apparent than when Pelosi and crew were afraid to condemn antisemitism, or censure Omar, following her "Benjamin's" remark. They knew, unfortunate as it is, they they might anger their anti-Jew base were they to call her out, as was warranted, and, at the same time, knew that Jews would stick with them despite their watered down resolution (which, ironically, Omar described as a resolution condemning anti-Muslimism).

https://spectator.org/the-calming-fe...emocrat-party/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
Forget the antisemitism in her party, how about the antisemitism in that post?? Yes, for anyone who doesn't know, Reform Jews are in fact Jews, and it's antisemitic to attack the way we choose to practice our religion and to imply that Reform Jews are not practicing Jews just because we prioritize social justice as a part of our religion. And btw, my rabbi is even more liberal than I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?
Talk about missing the point. Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.

That doesn't mean I support Omar and Tlaib btw and I've made that clear any number of times. But just like Trump, facts rarely matter to his followers.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Long Island
34,538 posts, read 14,496,568 times
Reputation: 7428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
Yes it is maddening, very inconsistent. Many Jewish leaders have criticized Trumps recent statements but some people just cant bring themselves to be fair.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:19 PM
Status: "unless there is no "there" there." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,380 posts, read 797,581 times
Reputation: 1435
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
... Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-democrats

Trump did not say that " Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US...."

This is what he actually said:

Quote:
If you vote for a Democrat, you’re being disloyal to Jewish people, and you’re being very disloyal to Israel,” Trump said Wednesday as he left the White House for an event in Louisville, Kentucky.
and

Quote:
“Any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat -- I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty,”
Given that Israel was created in 1948 as a Jewish haven following the Holocaust, and given the level of anti-Israel sentiment on the far left these days, I really don't see his words as unreasonable.

It's so easy to win debates when you get to falsely shove words into the mouth of the opposition.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,785 posts, read 6,644,916 times
Reputation: 12919
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Maybe we have to thank the squad for showing what the Democratic Party is about and I* believe from what I have been hearing lately, that more Jews will vote for Trump. Maybe not all will do so because they agree with everything, but many can no longer stand behind the Democratic Party that is overflowing of Anti-Semitism.
I haven't switched parties because my county and State are one-party Democratic People's Republics. And I am personally a far-left liberal. I cannot stand the party's current configuration. In particular there giving the Squadron significant power.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:43 PM
 
4,275 posts, read 878,259 times
Reputation: 3210
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Forget the antisemitism in her party, how about the antisemitism in that post?? Yes, for anyone who doesn't know, Reform Jews are in fact Jews, and it's antisemitic to attack the way we choose to practice our religion and to imply that Reform Jews are not practicing Jews just because we prioritize social justice as a part of our religion. And btw, my rabbi is even more liberal than I am.



Talk about missing the point. Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.

That doesn't mean I support Omar and Tlaib btw and I've made that clear any number of times. But just like Trump, facts rarely matter to his followers.
You are putting words in my mouth! Is that the only way you can win a debate?

1) I did not say that Reform Jews are not Jews. They are, however, less observant, and there is a direct correlation between level of observance and likelihood of voting Republican.

2) Trump never said Jews should be more loyal to Israel than America! He said that Jews who vote for the D are big disloyal to Jews, and to Israel, and that is in light of the Dems' anti-Israel stance and tolerance of antisemitism at the Congressional level.

I really wish liberals would dial down their venom and hatred for Jews who support Israel. I just today read that a Jewish Republican organization (I forget the exact name) has been receiving hate mail from liberals - telling them that they're amoral scum, they shout rot in he!!, and worse that I don't want to repeat here.
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