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Old 08-25-2019, 04:47 PM
 
9,075 posts, read 4,037,950 times
Reputation: 1783

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?
What worries me much more than this is there aren't enough Russia haters in the republican party.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,527 posts, read 12,150,001 times
Reputation: 32825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
Right on target! For these non-practicing Jews, their liberalism trumps their Judaism. While there are always exceptions, that is why Reform Jews (yum, shrimp!) vote Dem and Orthodox vote Republican.

As to why the Democrats defend antisemitism among their own elected officials, or at the minimum tolerate it, (such as we see with Omar and Tlaib), the author of the piece linked below surmises it is precisely because Jews are so beholden to liberalism that the Dems feel they can get away with it. It's a calculation that they are more likely to save or capture the votes of the Jew-haters on the left (and there are MANY) by justifying or excusing away Democratic antisemites than they are to lose the votes of Jews on the left by failing to take a strong stand against Jew-hate.

Never was this more apparent than when Pelosi and crew were afraid to condemn antisemitism, or censure Omar, following her "Benjamin's" remark. They knew, unfortunate as it is, they they might anger their anti-Jew base were they to call her out, as was warranted, and, at the same time, knew that Jews would stick with them despite their watered down resolution (which, ironically, Omar described as a resolution condemning anti-Muslimism).

https://spectator.org/the-calming-fe...emocrat-party/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
Forget the antisemitism in her party, how about the antisemitism in that post?? Yes, for anyone who doesn't know, Reform Jews are in fact Jews, and it's antisemitic to attack the way we choose to practice our religion and to imply that Reform Jews are not practicing Jews just because we prioritize social justice as a part of our religion. And btw, my rabbi is even more liberal than I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?
Talk about missing the point. Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.

That doesn't mean I support Omar and Tlaib btw and I've made that clear any number of times. But just like Trump, facts rarely matter to his followers.
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Old 08-25-2019, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,966 posts, read 14,293,620 times
Reputation: 7295
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
Good lord. It is so tiring to hear you constantly berate Omar and Tlaib and consistently and blatantly ignore the complete antisemitism in your own party.

Trump: "Jews aren't loyal to ISRAEL". And not one peep out of you. In fact, you staunchly defended his statement.

It makes it really difficult to take your outrage seriously. It's quite selective.
Yes it is maddening, very inconsistent. Many Jewish leaders have criticized Trumps recent statements but some people just cant bring themselves to be fair.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,095 posts, read 725,202 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
... Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-democrats

Trump did not say that " Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US...."

This is what he actually said:

Quote:
If you vote for a Democrat, you’re being disloyal to Jewish people, and you’re being very disloyal to Israel,” Trump said Wednesday as he left the White House for an event in Louisville, Kentucky.
and

Quote:
“Any Jewish people that vote for a Democrat -- I think it shows either a total lack of knowledge or great disloyalty,”
Given that Israel was created in 1948 as a Jewish haven following the Holocaust, and given the level of anti-Israel sentiment on the far left these days, I really don't see his words as unreasonable.

It's so easy to win debates when you get to falsely shove words into the mouth of the opposition.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:23 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,476 posts, read 6,503,661 times
Reputation: 12674
Quote:
Originally Posted by bentlebee View Post
Maybe we have to thank the squad for showing what the Democratic Party is about and I* believe from what I have been hearing lately, that more Jews will vote for Trump. Maybe not all will do so because they agree with everything, but many can no longer stand behind the Democratic Party that is overflowing of Anti-Semitism.
I haven't switched parties because my county and State are one-party Democratic People's Republics. And I am personally a far-left liberal. I cannot stand the party's current configuration. In particular there giving the Squadron significant power.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:43 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 814,683 times
Reputation: 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Forget the antisemitism in her party, how about the antisemitism in that post?? Yes, for anyone who doesn't know, Reform Jews are in fact Jews, and it's antisemitic to attack the way we choose to practice our religion and to imply that Reform Jews are not practicing Jews just because we prioritize social justice as a part of our religion. And btw, my rabbi is even more liberal than I am.



Talk about missing the point. Trump's claim that Jews are or should be more loyal to Israel than to the US is in fact antisemitic. So yeah, Republicans who are ok with that kind of language are absolutely disloyal to America and what it stands for, because they should be irate at this kind of attack on Jews by the sitting President.

That doesn't mean I support Omar and Tlaib btw and I've made that clear any number of times. But just like Trump, facts rarely matter to his followers.
You are putting words in my mouth! Is that the only way you can win a debate?

1) I did not say that Reform Jews are not Jews. They are, however, less observant, and there is a direct correlation between level of observance and likelihood of voting Republican.

2) Trump never said Jews should be more loyal to Israel than America! He said that Jews who vote for the D are big disloyal to Jews, and to Israel, and that is in light of the Dems' anti-Israel stance and tolerance of antisemitism at the Congressional level.

I really wish liberals would dial down their venom and hatred for Jews who support Israel. I just today read that a Jewish Republican organization (I forget the exact name) has been receiving hate mail from liberals - telling them that they're amoral scum, they shout rot in he!!, and worse that I don't want to repeat here.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:51 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,476 posts, read 6,503,661 times
Reputation: 12674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
I really wish liberals would dial down their venom and hatred for Jews
Fixed it for you. And I am an observant Reform Jew.
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Old 08-25-2019, 06:53 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,552 posts, read 16,935,330 times
Reputation: 22945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
And yet you're one who just claimed that people who voted for Trump aren't REAL Americans. If it upsets you when Democrats' loyalty is questioned, may be you shouldn't say that Republicans are disloyal to America! Talk about selective outrage.

And Trump never said Jews aren't loyal to Israel. He said that Jews who plan to vote for the Democrat are being disloyal, and that's due to the widespread anti-Israel movement within the D Party and the tolerance of antisemites among their elected officials.

And it's not Omar and Tlaib that concerns me, but the Dems reaction to them. They are perfectly fine having an adamant Israel-hater on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

And did you read the article I linked? Or were you so overly eager to condemn and insult a Jew who won't kowtow to the current liberal biases, which is now so adamantly anti-Israel that if a Jew defends it to any degree she is lambasted with despicable names?

NO. Trump said that Jews voting for Democrats aren't being loyal to ISRAEL. You can't even admit what he said ~ because that would destroy your narrative. I cannot believe you are willing to lie about the actual words that came out of his actual mouth.

And did I hurt your feelings? So sorry but you are on here 24/7 bashing Democrats day after day after day. And then you want to play the victim card. Ahhh - so typical.

Know what? I can't stand Omar and Tlaib's grandstanding.

But NONE of that means that all Democrats are anti-semites as you repeatedly assert. Whilst you conveniently and consistently refuse to admit what is going on in the Republican party. And you defend Trump's dual loyalty trope.

Pffft. Let me know when you can have a real conversation that includes the Republican party.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:03 PM
 
4,047 posts, read 814,683 times
Reputation: 2870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
NO. Trump said that Jews voting for Democrats aren't being loyal to ISRAEL. You can't even admit what he said ~ because that would destroy your narrative. I cannot believe you are willing to lie about the actual words that came out of his actual mouth.

And did I hurt your feelings? So sorry but you are on here 24/7 bashing Democrats day after day after day. And then you want to play the victim card. Ahhh - so typical.

Know what? I can't stand Omar and Tlaib's grandstanding.

But NONE of that means that all Democrats are anti-semites as you repeatedly assert. Whilst you conveniently and consistently refuse to admit what is going on in the Republican party. And you defend Trump's dual loyalty trope.

Pffft. Let me know when you can have a real conversation that includes the Republican party.
PFfft. You are accusing me of doing exactly what you just did in your post - which is to LIE.

I never said ALL Democrats are antisemites, as you just falsely claimed. But I AM dismayed and alarmed that the Dem leadership are condoning it within their own party. Sorry, but I don't feel comfortable having an antisemite who claims that Israel is evil and has hypnotized the world on the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Neither did I deny that Trump said Jews who vote Dem are being disloyal to Israel. I said he said it. And you know what? There are lots of Jews who agree. It is so obvious which party supports Israel, and which one doesn't.

And you know what I just caught? You said "whilst." Are you a Brit? Have I been arguing with someone who doesn't even have a say in America? (And Britian is having a problem with rising antisemitism, too.)
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,527 posts, read 12,150,001 times
Reputation: 32825
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel976 View Post
You are putting words in my mouth! Is that the only way you can win a debate?

1) I did not say that Reform Jews are not Jews. They are, however, less observant, and there is a direct correlation between level of observance and likelihood of voting Republican.

2) Trump never said Jews should be more loyal to Israel than America! He said that Jews who vote for the D are big disloyal to Jews, and to Israel, and that is in light of the Dems' anti-Israel stance and tolerance of antisemitism at the Congressional level.

I really wish liberals would dial down their venom and hatred for Jews who support Israel. I just today read that a Jewish Republican organization (I forget the exact name) has been receiving hate mail from liberals - telling them that they're amoral scum, they shout rot in he!!, and worse that I don't want to repeat here.
And whoops, you just did it again. Reform Jews are NOT "less observant" simply because they observe in different ways. So yeah, you actually are kind of saying that Reform Jews are not Jews or at the very least, not good enough Jews.

And you are the one putting words in my mouth because not supporting Netanyahu doesn't mean I don't support Israel. I have relatives who have served in the IDF who don't support Netanyahu or Trump. Are you going to accuse them of not being Jewish enough too?

As for Trump's words, he certainly did invoke the trope that Jews are more loyal to Israel than to America. You may choose to be willfully ignorant of that but others don't choose to be.
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