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Old 08-19-2019, 12:00 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,826,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
American popular mind equates Asians with with wealth - the most American thing imaginable and yet American society denies Asians full integration, they must self-segregate for some sort of human connection. Americans grew up to be almost a separate human specie, alien to the outsiders from less atomized worlds. It takes many many years if not generations to get used to it, anger and spite are the normal part of accepting that you've been duped on many levels, and at the end it is your fault.
Yeah being one of the wealthiest groups in America is just not good enough. Everything is our fault even imaginary things. We're disliked because were just so dislike-able and bad lol. Are you seriously trying to argue Asia is more inclusive and less alien than America?
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:19 PM
 
6,326 posts, read 6,560,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Yeah being one of the wealthiest groups in America is just not good enough. Everything is our fault even imaginary things. We're disliked because were just so dislike-able and bad lol. Are you seriously trying to argue Asia is more inclusive and less alien than America?
No, but it makes no difference to an Asian man who cannot get a date, never mind all those feel good color blind Hollywood movies he watched. Much unlike Asia USA sold the world its image that does not exist.
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Old 08-19-2019, 12:31 PM
 
Location: moved
13,590 posts, read 9,627,176 times
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Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
The only problem is that we haven't really seen this happen with the Latino community as of yet.

And with the continual numbers of both legal and illegal immigrants from south of the border, this may never come to pass...
Give it time. Consider what happened to Greek, Italian or Polish immigrants. In 1919, they weren't even considered to be fully "white". They voted based on immigrant identity; maybe on machine-politics. And today?

We're thinking in terms of the 2008 election, the 2012 election, the 2016 election, the 2020 election. That's too brief. Instead, I'm talking about the 2120 election. How will the great-great-grandchildren of today's first-generation immigrants vote?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Catholics mindset is less social Darwinian and more communitarian than those of mainstream American Christianity. I do not see latino catholics agreeing on many issues with protestant America....
I'm seeing confluence in political identity between Evangelical Protestants, Conservative Catholics, Orthodox Jews and even conservative Muslims. The shared idea is that laws come from divine imprint, tradition is valued because it's handed to us from supernatural directive, and the human experience is fundamentally informed by humans being in the Creator's image. Everything else - what foods are forbidden, what holidays to observe, what clothes to wear, and so forth - are details.

On the opposing side are secular people, whether Hispanic ex-Catholics, Turkish/Arab/Persian/Pakistani ex-Muslims, Ashkenazi non-religious Jews, New England blue-blood WASPs who have given up the "P"... who assert that laws are a manmade creation, that existence is contingent and fraught, that what society values is conditional, evolving and often wrong, and that tradition is at best something that we do as a placeholder, until we figure out an improvement.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:08 PM
 
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Hand picking a team that approves of your actions will always result in the types of outcomes we see today.
That's not hard to determine.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:22 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,610,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Are you seriously trying to argue Asia is more inclusive and less alien than America?
Well, using any measurement of "do you approve of the way things are going and your leadership and basic traditions and foundations?" I'd guess there would be a big difference in China vs. USA.

But for a westerner to try and understand Eastern thoughts and traditions...is tough. They value action more than words, whereas we fight all day long with BS here.

Alien? I'd say most newer cultures are going to feel so to their residents then those with foundations....especially sane foundations like Buddhism and Taoism. Traditions based on honor and family and "lifting all boats" to whatever extent would seem to be more timeless then "how much are you going to make next quarter" and "get more guns because your kids were shot up in school".

Generalizations, to be sure. In the USA there are multitudes of cultures and traditions, but in a governance and corporate sense this is less so.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:26 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,826,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
No, but it makes no difference to an Asian man who cannot get a date, never mind all those feel good color blind Hollywood movies he watched. Much unlike Asia USA sold the world its image that does not exist.
Not my fault if an Asian man can't get a date with a woman or can't tell the difference between drama and fiction and non-fiction. My advise is to stay in Asia.
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Old 08-19-2019, 01:30 PM
 
19,966 posts, read 7,826,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well, using any measurement of "do you approve of the way things are going and your leadership and basic traditions and foundations?" I'd guess there would be a big difference in China vs. USA.

But for a westerner to try and understand Eastern thoughts and traditions...is tough. They value action more than words, whereas we fight all day long with BS here.

Alien? I'd say most newer cultures are going to feel so to their residents then those with foundations....especially sane foundations like Buddhism and Taoism. Traditions based on honor and family and "lifting all boats" to whatever extent would seem to be more timeless then "how much are you going to make next quarter" and "get more guns because your kids were shot up in school".

Generalizations, to be sure. In the USA there are multitudes of cultures and traditions, but in a governance and corporate sense this is less so.
That's the problem, incompatible and vying for supremacy over the native, majority one.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:40 PM
 
62,680 posts, read 28,868,753 times
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Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
The OP seems to assume that everyone votes purely their own self-interest. One reason I have admired the Kennedys (JFK and RFK) is that, even though they were wealthy and white, they fought for the poor and for minorities. If whites become the minority, I won't suddenly become an anti-immigrant racist. I hope the majority of Americans would vote for the common good and not be factionalized by race.

Conservatives often accuse liberals of being naive do-gooders. I guess I'd rather be called naive than cold-hearted.
Well the Democrats of today aren't fighting for the American worker whether they be poor and minority workers or not, they are fighting for illegal aliens instead. That to me is being cold blooded against our own people no matter who they are.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:45 PM
 
62,680 posts, read 28,868,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohio_peasant View Post
Definitely true! WW1 was catastrophic for Western optimism and European prosperity in particular. We forget today, that before 1914, European influence worldwide was overwhelming, and America, though prosperous, was a second-rate player. The resulting crisis was about West vs. East, Us vs. Them. It was a philosophical crisis, of the nature of individuals vs. governments, objective vs. subjective facts, the moral implications of science and technology. And it happened first, precisely in the most developed nations.



Indeed, one of the most reliably Democratic blocs in recent times, has been people with PhDs.



From my vantage point, the current party division over immigration, is temporary. The enduring division will be cultural. Even today, we see as one of the biggest predictors of party-allegiance, at least among whites, the level of religiosity. Secular people – rich or poor, hippie or yuppie, well-educated or not, Coastal or Heartland – are gravitating towards the Democratic party. Actively religious people are going Republican. If Latinos remain traditionally Christian, they’re likely to eventually go Republican, as they establish themselves and lose their Latin cultural identity, without losing the Christian one.
Many Latinos think if they go to church they are Christians all the while holding their ethnic group above our immigration laws. Nothing Christian about that. They have a tribal mentality and that will always trump their Christianity. They are also adamant about retaining their cultural identity. None of this will ever change enough for many of them to become Republicans.
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:58 PM
 
72,847 posts, read 62,291,791 times
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Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Many Latinos think if they go to church they are Christians all the while holding their ethnic group above our immigration laws. Nothing Christian about that. They have a tribal mentality and that will always trump their Christianity. They are also adamant about retaining their cultural identity. None of this will ever change enough for many of them to become Republicans.
33 years of living have taught me something. Alot of people are tribalistic in the way they vote. While alot of Hispanic people look out for their in-group first, they aren't alone in this. Many Asian-Americans are like this. Alot of Black Americans are like this. Alot of White Americans are like this. Tribalism has been rampant in the USA from day one. Division has been rampant since day one.
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