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Old Yesterday, 06:07 PM
 
19,193 posts, read 9,770,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
LifeExplorer, I've overheard employers contending their low-wage employees are not worthy of their costs, but they continue to retain those employees. They’re not altruistic; they realize they're not likely to find better employees unless they're willing to pay higher wages.

Employers could ask their sales staff or their file clerks to do some light housework and reduce some of their janitorial expenses; but rather than grumble, employees' resentments could be indicated by reduced sales volumes or last files or higher expenses due to increased employee turnover.

Employers could better motivate their staffs by increasing sales commissions or bonuses for improved performances, but aren't those remedies similar to paying higher wages?

Employers are not forced at gunpoint to pay above market-rates for labor; the federal minimum wage rate is among the normal factors that determine USA labor-markets' rates.
I asked you to explain the morality of your slavery, but you provided none.

If they aren’t forced, why do we need the slavery minimum wage law?

Who are you to dictate how much someone chooses to pay? Abolish the minimum wage law and let people enjoy the freedom.
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Old Yesterday, 06:08 PM
 
19,193 posts, read 9,770,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
I'd disagree with the 'slavery' interpretation; nobody is 'forced' to hire anyone in the first place.

But I would say that the minimum wage, as implemented in the US, is a fraud and charade. There would be ways to implement a minimum wage that actually would benefit low-wage workers, but they cost money and therefore are not pursued (by either party). The fiat minimum wage that we have harms those it is supposed to help.
It is slavery if one party is forced to pay you money just because.

Of course, itís not slavery to YOU.
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Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 5,110,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
No one has a right to a minimum wage,
just slaves have no such right and must accept whatever compensation master find appropriate. Ironically, free wage labor in the North frequently fared worse than slaves in the South. Slave' means of subsistance were provided for by their masters (who did not want to lose an expensive piece of property). Capitalist masters do not care whether a wage slave is dead or alive. Thus freed slaves experienced tremendous existential shock after being released in the cold uncaring predatory world run by capitalist masters. Many slave descendants cannot overcome that shock to this day.
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Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 5,110,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
I asked you to explain the morality of your slavery, but you provided none.

If they aren’t forced, why do we need the slavery minimum wage law?

Who are you to dictate how much someone chooses to pay? Abolish the minimum wage law and let people enjoy the freedom.
Too bad the joy of such freedom will flow one way. Why right wingers pretend that we live in some free for all fantasy world? We live in society where plutocrats control labor not with whips but by controlling wage slave' access to means of subsistence. In this free world of yours one has no inherent right to exist unless he sells his wage slaving arse to the owners, and they have no obligation to buy.
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Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
 
30,135 posts, read 16,641,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
just slaves have no such right and must accept whatever compensation master find appropriate. Ironically, free wage labor in the North frequently fared worse than slaves in the South. Slave' means of subsistance were provided for by their masters (who did not want to lose an expensive piece of property). Capitalist masters do not care whether a wage slave is dead or alive. Thus freed slaves experienced tremendous existential shock after being released in the cold uncaring predatory world run by capitalist masters. Many slave descendants cannot overcome that shock to this day.
And you're still a slave
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Old Yesterday, 06:33 PM
 
19,193 posts, read 9,770,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Too bad the joy of such freedom will flow one way. Why right wingers pretend that we live in some free for all fantasy world? We live in society where plutocrats control labor not with whips but by controlling wage slave' access to means of subsistence. In this free world of yours one has no inherent right to exist unless he sells his wage slaving arse to the owners, and they have no obligation to buy.
So you are in support of slavery?
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Old Yesterday, 06:51 PM
 
1,382 posts, read 712,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
You are welcome to explain the morality of the minimum wage law:
... 2. People are prohibited from selling their labor and services at a discount to compete with others so that they can have a job and feed their family.
LifeExplorer, unless there's a scarcity of available minimum wage labor, those employees and applicants are in the poorest of wage negotiating positions.

The minimum wage rate's effect upon the lowest of rates is the greatest and has the least effect upon the highest of rates, but it affects all job rates.

The minimum rate ability to reduce poverty among the working poor is dependent upon its purchasing power.

If our minimum rate's poor, our median rate cannot be sufficient. The purchasing power of the median wage rate is a good indication of our nations living standards.

That's the economic significance and justification of our federal minimum wage rate. It limits the extent of low wage rates detrimental effects upon our nation's economy
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Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
 
5,091 posts, read 5,110,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
So you are in support of slavery?
I am in support of not coercive choices. Just because economic coercion is de personalized and made abstract it is a poor substitute for freedom even if you climb up a ladder. Right wingers, being totalitarian creatures in their hearts, worship any hierarchy and call it freedom no matter how small is the chance to join the fleecing class. A right winger cannot understand people who do not view standing neck deep in crap to a have a tiny shot at a moving up as an ideal political organization. Instead of draining the cesspool they call us to climb a narrow ladder harder, a proposition 23456% doomed to fail for all but a few.
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Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
 
1,382 posts, read 712,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
You are welcome to explain the morality of the minimum wage law
...
LifeExplorer, we all do better when we all do better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
Minimum wage, a character issue. That's the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
The federal minimum wage, (FMW) rate is of net social and economic benefit to our nation. It has never been among the major causes of the U.S. dollar’s inflation; on the contrary, it’s certainly among inflation's victims.

No employees are poorer and no enterprises suffer any competitive disadvantage to any USA enterprises due to the FMW rate.

[there’s no doubt that USA’s higher wage rates are among the causes of our products’ price disadvantages in comparison to products from lower-wage nations; but although the elimination of our minimum wage laws would be greatly detrimental to our nation’s net social and economic well-being, eliminating it would accomplish extremely little to remedy our products’ global price disadvantages.]

I suppose most USA’s population, (significantly more than a 10% plurality) to some extent approve of federal minimum rate’s existence. There are much fewer among wealthy or competent people that are opposed to the federal minimum rate.

A great proportion of minimum rate opponents lack self-esteem. They need whatever affirmation of their own worth that they can derive by being able to look down upon people experiencing lesser financial conditions. They cannot acknowledge even to themselves their fears of improving the financial conditions of others would consequentially reduce their own social status. That’s the essence of personal and political opposition to the FMW rate.
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Old Yesterday, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,360 posts, read 1,955,041 times
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The actual minimum wage is negative infinity.

Just ask any small business owner.
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