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Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Texas
35,519 posts, read 19,502,510 times
Reputation: 21132

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifeexplorer View Post
You are welcome to explain the morality of the the minimum wage law:

1. People are forced at gunpoint to pay above fair market rate for labor and services, or
2. People are prohibited from selling their labor and services at a discount to compete with others so that they can have a job and feed their family.
I know enough that no explanation offered by me or anyone else will be the antidote to your corporatist/right wing/hate radio/Fox News mind poisoning.

"Spread the wealth"

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Old Yesterday, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,375 posts, read 1,955,041 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
I am in support of not coercive choices. Just because economic coercion is de personalized and made abstract it is a poor substitute for freedom even if you climb up a ladder. Right wingers, being totalitarian creatures in their hearts, worship any hierarchy and call it freedom no matter how small is the chance to join the fleecing class. A right winger cannot understand people who do not view standing neck deep in crap to a have a tiny shot at a moving up as an ideal political organization. Instead of draining the cesspool they call us to climb a narrow ladder harder, a proposition 23456% doomed to fail for all but a few.
Speaking for myself as a definite non right-winger, why not just completely separate business and the State and let the market correct itself?

All those problems you listed are the direct result of State interference in the free market. The US has never once in its history been a capitalist society.
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Old Yesterday, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,375 posts, read 1,955,041 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post

"Spread the wealth"

"Taxation is theft."

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Old Yesterday, 07:29 PM
 
5,105 posts, read 5,110,098 times
Reputation: 6364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Speaking for myself as a definite non right-winger, why not just completely separate business and the State and let the market correct itself?

All those problems you listed are the direct result of State interference in the free market. The US has never once in its history been a capitalist society.
What do you mean? USA was and is capitalist. Capital is private, and capitalists manage capital privately as to maximize their private wealth further without any regard to the interests of hundreds of millions of folks out there affected by their decisions, forget spotted owls or melting glaciers. The problem with capitalism is that it unavoidably divides a country into decision makers (who do not give a dime) and hundreds of millions of decision receivers having no say. It is a tense coexistence made possible by State that supplements economic coercion with lethal coercion and brainwashing from cradle to grave. Only severely brainwashed people believe that grossly imbalanced decision making makes them free.
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Old Yesterday, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,375 posts, read 1,955,041 times
Reputation: 1667
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
What do you mean? USA was and is capitalist. Capital is private, and capitalists manage capital privately as to maximize their private wealth further without any regard to the interests of hundreds of millions of folks out there affected by their decisions, forget spotted owls or melting glaciers. The problem with capitalism is that it unavoidably divides a country in decision makers (who do not give a dime) and hundreds of millions of decision receivers. It is a tense coexistence made possible by State that supplements economic coercion with lethal coercion and brainwashing from cradle to grave. Only severely brainwashed people believe that grossly imbalanced decision making makes them free.
The USA has never--not once in its entire history--been capitalist. Capitalism is the free and voluntary exchange of goods and services between consenting parties in the absence of State interference. Capitalism cannot exist within a State.

From the First Bank, to the Whiskey Rebellion, to the Transcontinental, to the Federal Reserve, to Prohibition, to gun laws, to drug laws--never once have people in this country been permitted to engage in voluntary exchange without State regulation or bans.
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM
 
19,193 posts, read 9,770,896 times
Reputation: 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supposn View Post
LifeExplorer, we all do better when we all do better.
So slavery makes things better?
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Old Yesterday, 07:47 PM
 
19,193 posts, read 9,770,896 times
Reputation: 5371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
I know enough that no explanation offered by me or anyone else will be the antidote to your corporatist/right wing/hate radio/Fox News mind poisoning.

"Spread the wealth"

If you have no argument, simply admit it.

Spread the wealth under the gun is slavery, aka. communism, aka. socialism.
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Old Yesterday, 07:58 PM
 
5,105 posts, read 5,110,098 times
Reputation: 6364
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
The USA has never--not once in its entire history--been capitalist. Capitalism is the free and voluntary exchange of goods and services between consenting parties in the absence of State interference. Capitalism cannot exist within a State.

From the First Bank, to the Whiskey Rebellion, to the Transcontinental, to the Federal Reserve, to Prohibition, to gun laws, to drug laws--never once have people in this country been permitted to engage in voluntary exchange without State regulation or bans.
Capital has a tendency to accumulate, accumulation of capital has a tendency to wipe out free and voluntary exchanges of goods and, especially, labor. People having no say is a byproduct of capital accumulation. State is a tool capitalists use, it is the same tool as a compound interest but more deadly, just look at fabulous revolving door between American Capital and American state. Free and non coercive exchanges do not vibe with capitalism at all. The point of capitalism is for the winner to accumulate enough of capital to impose rules and terms of exchange benefitting the winners at loser' expense. If capital works within a weak state, it utilizes gangs and contract killers to maintain uneven playing field. There is no free for all at any stage of capitalism.
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Old Yesterday, 08:03 PM
 
1,382 posts, read 712,795 times
Reputation: 379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
...The Constitution and our founding is based on rights. No one has a right to a minimum wage,
LovesHisCountry, sessions of the U.S. Congress, and the U.S. Presidents then in office, took it upon themselves to disagree with you.

On a number of occasions, the U.S. Supreme Court has upheld the government's decisions to enact and later to modify the federal minimum wage rate.

The Supreme Court seems to believe that the mention of the “general welfare” within the constitution's preamble and the first line of its first article, eight section, and within that same section the phrases of “Congress shall have the power” and “To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states”, and “To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers”, all seemed to have some weight in the matter of the federal minimum wage rate's constitutional legality.

I suppose the Supreme Court Justices came to those decisions because they lacked the benefit of your incisive legal consul.
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Old Yesterday, 08:25 PM
 
24,631 posts, read 12,157,190 times
Reputation: 10503
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Gringo View Post
...is way too low.

And Pubs want to keep it there.

After all, they're all about cheap labor and sending your job to China.

The party of corporate welfare.

Looking for a raise?
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