U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-19-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
67,980 posts, read 34,745,898 times
Reputation: 14676

Advertisements

Apparently, you are unaware of the republican form of government, instituted by the Declaration of Independence, wherein the American people are "sovereigns without subjects," and the president is merely the highest ranking public SERVANT, one step down in status from the lowest American sovereign.

But it is to be expected, since most Americans are victims of the world's greatest propaganda ministry, and are loathe to read their own laws and history.


REPUBLICAN FORM
GOVERNMENT (Republican Form of Government)- One in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people ... directly...
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, P. 695

". . . at the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people, and they are truly the sovereigns of the country, but they are sovereigns without subjects, and have none to govern but themselves. . ."
- - - Justice John Jay, Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 U.S. 2 Dall. 419 419 (1793)
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremec...CR_0002_0419_Z
"What I do say is that no man is good enough to govern another man without that other's consent. I say this is the leading principle, the sheet-anchor of American republicanism. Our Declaration of Independence says: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."
- - - Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (1854)
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abraham_lincoln

As Lincoln reminds us, under the republican form, promised by the USCON, described by the Declaration of Independence, NO MAN (nor American government) is good enough to govern you without your consent. Without your consent, all that government is authorized to do is secure endowed (sacred) rights (prosecute trespass; adjudicate disputes; defend against enemies, foreign or domestic).
" Personal liberty, or the Right to enjoyment of life and liberty, is one of the fundamental or natural Rights, which has been protected by its inclusion as a guarantee in the various constitutions, which is not derived from, or dependent on, the U.S. Constitution, which may not be submitted to a vote and may not depend on the outcome of an election. It is one of the most sacred and valuable Rights, as sacred as the Right to private property...and is regarded as inalienable."
- - - 16 Corpus Juris Secundum, Constitutional Law, Sect.202, p.987.
In this excerpt we see that sacred rights encompass natural rights, personal liberty, and the right to private property (i.e., absolutely owned by an individual).
NATURAL RIGHTS - ... are the rights of life, liberty, privacy, and good reputation.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed., p. 1324
Short review of the foundation of American law - - -
" We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..."
--- Declaration of Independence, 1776
CONTRAST THAT WITH THIS:
“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.”
- - - George Washington; "Sentiments on a Peace Establishment" in a letter to Alexander Hamilton (2 May 1783); published in The Writings of George Washington (1938), edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289.
[... Every citizen ... owes a portion of his property ... and services in defense ... in the militia ... from 18 to 50 years of age... ]

IN SHORT,
The American citizen has no endowed right to life, nor liberty, nor absolute ownership because, as a subject, he can be ordered to train, fight, and die, on command (militia duty), and was obligated to give up a portion of his property (taxes, etc).
However, that does not negate the endowed rights of the American people (noncitizens) who did not consent to be governed.

BUT if you consented, shut up, sit down, pay and obey.
WHY?
BECAUSE Citizens are NOT sovereigns
"CITIZEN - ... Citizens are members of a political community who, in their associative capacity, have established or submitted themselves to the dominion of government for the promotion of the general welfare and the protection of their individual as well as collective rights. "
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Ed. p.244

"... the term 'citizen,' in the United States, is analogous to the term "subject" in the common law; the change of phrase has resulted from the change in government. ... he who before was a "subject of the King" is now a citizen of the State."
- - - State v. Manuel, 20 N.C. 144 (1838)

SUBJECT - One that owes allegiance to a sovereign and is governed by his laws.
...Men in free governments are subjects as well as citizens; as citizens they enjoy rights and franchises; as subjects they are bound to obey the laws. The term is little used, in this sense, in countries enjoying a republican form of government.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition, p. 1425
So which one are you?


[] One of the sovereign people who directly exercise sovereignty over their person, liberty and property, whose endowed rights are secured by government?


[] Or one of the subject citizens who indirectly exercise sovereignty via delegation to representatives, and have surrendered endowed rights in exchange for civil and political liberties (i.e."rights") by consent to be governed?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-19-2019, 06:56 AM
 
Location: USA
19,882 posts, read 9,546,310 times
Reputation: 14923
The "Draft" was an outgrowth of the old Feudal System where Royalty could recruit Serfs to defend their property. So, in reality it does go against many of our Founding principals. We no longer have the draft, but that doesn't mean it could not be reinstated. We all HAD to register with Selective Service. At least them Men did.

The problem is can the U.S. have an effective defense against foreign powers, terrorism, etc if there is no standing Army?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:04 AM
 
2,484 posts, read 1,249,139 times
Reputation: 2536
I want healthy young males to defend me, my good looking wife, my kids and my property from outside and inside enemies, because even if taking into account that I, as a combat officer, highly trained in combat, I just cannot be at work and in my house at the same time to defend them. So I have the law to partially defend them. I understand that this service that the society provides is not free. I think it makes sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:05 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,035 posts, read 3,059,719 times
Reputation: 7647
Quote:
As an American, you DO NOT have to consent to tyranny
You mean I don't have to consent to Donald Trump? Best news I've heard all day!

Now if, say, the City of Los Angeles also does not want to submit to the tyranny of Donald Trump and decides it wants to be a sanctuary city in defiance of Trump's edicts, I'm glad you agree they have the right to do that as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:08 AM
 
Location: USA
19,882 posts, read 9,546,310 times
Reputation: 14923
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
You mean I don't have to consent to Donald Trump? Best news I've heard all day!

Now if, say, the City of Los Angeles also does not want to submit to the tyranny of Donald Trump and decides it wants to be a sanctuary city in defiance of Trump's edicts, I'm glad you agree they have the right to do that as well.
So instead of addressing the issue, you make it all about Trump. How enlightening.

How is Trump installing tyranny? How is being a "sanctuary city" at all consistent with our country's existing laws that have been in place since the beginning? They are NOT. It is ILLEGAL. It was illegal under Obama too.

Just to remind you 007 is now a woman. Very telling.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Cape Cod
12,154 posts, read 8,558,792 times
Reputation: 20826
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
You mean I don't have to consent to Donald Trump? Best news I've heard all day!

Now if, say, the City of Los Angeles also does not want to submit to the tyranny of Donald Trump and decides it wants to be a sanctuary city in defiance of Trump's edicts, I'm glad you agree they have the right to do that as well.





Of course the city of LA does not have to consent to the Federal Gov. ie Trump BUT what a dangerous path to go down. Is it really tyranny to try and protect the country from people that break our immigration laws and then demand that they be taken care of by the hard working taxpayers of this country? It costs California an estimated $19 BILLION per year to keep their social experiment, more like defiance of Federal law going.

There is a discussion going on in this forum about California becoming the first third world state in the country.



If you guys are proud of resisting the "Trump tyranny" that leads to lousy living conditions for your Legal citizens than so be it but don't spread this nonsense to the rest of the country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,035 posts, read 3,059,719 times
Reputation: 7647
It wasn't *really* about Trump, I was merely using that as an example.

The problem with citing tyranny this and tyranny that is, who is it who defines what "tyranny" is? One man's tyranny is another man's ideal leader.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Midwest
32,279 posts, read 20,074,502 times
Reputation: 8217
LOL! 2nd Amendment supporters and the NRA cower from mass shooters who are at war with innocent citizens of our country. How could any of them have the wherewithal to fight against a tyrannical government?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:26 AM
 
Location: USA
19,882 posts, read 9,546,310 times
Reputation: 14923
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
LOL! 2nd Amendment supporters and the NRA cower from mass shooters who are at war with innocent citizens of our country. How could any of them have the wherewithal to fight against a tyrannical government?
How are they cowering from mass shooters? The vast majority of these shooting take place in GUN FREE ZONES where people are disarmed. The rest are armed gang bangers in the ghetto. Get a life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-19-2019, 07:46 AM
 
30,894 posts, read 16,942,454 times
Reputation: 14291
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
LOL! 2nd Amendment supporters and the NRA cower from mass shooters who are at war with innocent citizens of our country. How could any of them have the wherewithal to fight against a tyrannical government?
im not an NRA member and the NRA isnt an actual person or single school of thought as you imply but...
There is self preservation, as well as worry about the cops showing up and shooting you because you have a gun in your hand. There is no cowardice in either.
Speaking of cops, how do you feel about them shooting the family pet and unarmed citizens or killing women, children etc. as govt security did at Waco and Ruby Ridge?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top