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Old Yesterday, 10:03 AM
 
9,530 posts, read 2,900,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Bush Jr. started this. Obama extended it, and Trump has tried to double down to get us out of it. Will it work? I don't know....but the alternate is the failure of our economy and dollar.
One thing I can say, we buy 4-5x more stuff from China then they do from us, so if all that trade completely ended it's not going to be an end of days for the US financially. We are China's biggest casino gambler. In reality we need to just balance trade better and make more of our own stuff. The jobs that come with it, taxes paid *domestically*, and increased GDP would help us pull out of our nosedive over time. It's not accident that our national debt ~ equals the last 15 years of trade deficit with China, and fixing it isn't going to happen overnight it will probably be another 15 years to get out of it if we continue to do something about it.
Trump is not trying to get us out of anything. He is trying to manipulate the market by having an all-out trade war with China and then bullying the Fed to lower interest rates because of his idiotic policies. Unfortunately, people are so used to paying almost nothing for stuff that there is no way they'll have the stomach or the resources to actually pay for American workers to produce our goods. Meanwhile, he is exploding our deficit and our debt. Yeah, really good job he's doing. SMDH.
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Old Yesterday, 10:05 AM
 
9,530 posts, read 2,900,716 times
Reputation: 5714
Quote:
Originally Posted by rerod View Post
Even though I don't agree with everything trump does, he's right about “We have been ripped off by China for a long time.” Chinese spy's have been stealing American technologies for a long time.



The tariffs have greater potential for damage to the Chinese economy than damage to the US so he's calling their bluff.


Hang on, but in the end this will get him reelected after the public realizes he was right.
Yeah, I'm sure all the bankrupt farmers and people paying more for goods because of Trump's trade war will want to vote for him again. If they do, we deserve another term of his idiocy. I don't think China is in the mood to be bullied by the bully-in-chief.
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Old Yesterday, 10:09 AM
 
9,002 posts, read 4,009,321 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Bush Jr. started this. Obama extended it, and Trump has tried to double down to get us out of it. Will it work? I don't know....but the alternate is the failure of our economy and dollar.
One thing I can say, we buy 4-5x more stuff from China then they do from us, so if all that trade completely ended it's not going to be an end of days for the US financially. We are China's biggest casino gambler. In reality we need to just balance trade better and make more of our own stuff. The jobs that come with it, taxes paid *domestically*, and increased GDP would help us pull out of our nosedive over time. It's not accident that our national debt ~ equals the last 15 years of trade deficit with China, and fixing it isn't going to happen overnight it will probably be another 15 years to get out of it if we continue to do something about it.
Trade with China is but a small reason for our total national debt. 15 years is no hallmark.

https://ticdata.treasury.gov/Publish/mfh.txt

When this tariff thing all settles down and the adults in the room agree to let our cheaper trade partners support us, save enough of our own production for national security, and redirect or retrain all those newly unemployed as a result to do something more worthwhile for the USA, then we will have moved on to more important things like infrastructure and HC.
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Old Yesterday, 10:14 AM
 
9,002 posts, read 4,009,321 times
Reputation: 1769
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Unfortunately, people are so used to paying almost nothing for stuff that there is no way they'll have the stomach or the resources to actually pay for American workers to produce
It is unfortunate that we are given our stuff for consumption?
My gosh, I'll then have more money to save and/or buy something else!

When the Austrians and modern money people agree on something, I would really recommend listening!

Imports are benefits, and generally a net positive for our country.
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Old Yesterday, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Iowa City
61 posts, read 127,850 times
Reputation: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Yeah, I'm sure all the bankrupt farmers and people paying more for goods because of Trump's trade war will want to vote for him again. If they do, we deserve another term of his idiocy. I don't think China is in the mood to be bullied by the bully-in-chief.

Some will suffer here, but more will suffer in China.


This is what Trump does best.
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
996 posts, read 1,147,675 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Trump is not trying to get us out of anything. He is trying to manipulate the market by having an all-out trade war with China and then bullying the Fed to lower interest rates because of his idiotic policies. Unfortunately, people are so used to paying almost nothing for stuff that there is no way they'll have the stomach or the resources to actually pay for American workers to produce our goods. Meanwhile, he is exploding our deficit and our debt. Yeah, really good job he's doing. SMDH.
I am not a fan of Q/E at all, as of course that reduces the value of dollars in our hands. At the same time though, a weaker dollar does excite more exports as our goods become cheaper to buy. This is why, for over a decade now, China has pinned their Yuan to our Dollar, so they could keep the buffet table tilted their way when their Yuan should have swelled greatly in value causing a reversal of trade. On the other end of the spectrum, trade between the US and Canada for example, is pretty balanced yet has an "ebb and flow" with the variations in currency values. This helps exports "bouy" the country with a weaker economy/currency back up.

I guess I need to prepare a story for my kids, how the USA failed. "Because the American consumer was too selfish and valued cheaper goods over the economic longevity of our country, is the reason we sank to the Tijuana quality of life we have today."
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Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
996 posts, read 1,147,675 times
Reputation: 1102
https://www.prosperousamerica.org/ar...ederal_deficit

Good article (please read the whole thing) that I believe focuses on the MATH, and shares my belief that the Tariff's help support domestic business(and tax collection from), in addition to the jobs.

“The US national debt stood at $21.974 trillion at the end of 2018, more than $2 trillion higher than when President Donald Trump took office, according to numbers released Thursday by the Treasury Department.” On the other hand, the national debt nearly doubled under Obama’s eight-years as President going from $10.626 trillion when he was sworn on January 20, 2009 to $19.947 trillion when he left on January 20, 2017."
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 AM
 
38,918 posts, read 15,264,442 times
Reputation: 25260
A hearty "Welcome to planet Earth," to anyone posting about how "China will suffer more."

Really?

Does anyone honestly believe that a nation that cherishes their children (aside from being darn cute and carrying the family name, it's their retirement plan), then puts up with forced abortions for the good of the country are going to fuss about economic "suffering" due to Trump's stupid tariff war?

We need to seriously consider Thorazine in the water supply.

But back to quantitative easing. Why would we need that? I thought this economy was going great guns, best economy ever. Huge, really. Lowest unemployment rate since God knows when.
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Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
 
23,840 posts, read 12,562,558 times
Reputation: 7610
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
A hearty "Welcome to planet Earth," to anyone posting about how "China will suffer more."

Really?

Does anyone honestly believe that a nation that cherishes their children (aside from being darn cute and carrying the family name, it's their retirement plan), then puts up with forced abortions for the good of the country are going to fuss about economic "suffering" due to Trump's stupid tariff war?

We need to seriously consider Thorazine in the water supply.

But back to quantitative easing. Why would we need that? I thought this economy was going great guns, best economy ever. Huge, really. Lowest unemployment rate since God knows when.
EXACTLY.


Many Americans and Trump are basing their ideas of what the Chinese govt. will do on what WE in the USA would tolerate or allow our government to do and what they can and can't do.

It doesn't work the same.

AND --- it is completely ignorant and flat out lie that the USA doesn't need China.

That's the problem. USA needs China to buy American goods.
American companies need China.

AND -- how can we claim to have a great economy with the status quo on trade while complaining that the status quo on trade is killing the USA.
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Old Yesterday, 11:39 AM
 
38,918 posts, read 15,264,442 times
Reputation: 25260
Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
EXACTLY.


Many Americans and Trump are basing their ideas of what the Chinese govt. will do on what WE in the USA would tolerate or allow our government to do and what they can and can't do.

It doesn't work the same.

AND --- it is completely ignorant and flat out lie that the USA doesn't need China.

That's the problem. USA needs China to buy American goods.
American companies need China.

AND -- how can we claim to have a great economy with the status quo on trade while complaining that the status quo on trade is killing the USA.
Who know?

Have to wonder what people are smoking if they think the U.S. will "win" this trade war by making China "suffer more."

Or that the status quo on trade is killing the USA, which, by the way, has the best economy ever.
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