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Old 08-19-2019, 06:23 PM
 
16,366 posts, read 4,308,715 times
Reputation: 11506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMSRetired View Post
Your "facts" are wrong. Cellphone and cameras will not be taxed.
Wrong..this is the second batch going through.
What are you talking about? When is Trump gonna close the Mexican border? You speak of the 11,000 lies he tells as if they are established fact. In one hour Tim Apple made Trump roll back the cell phone deal until the end of the year. That's 100's of billions of dollars worth of product.

Talk to me when those are implemented and exceptions aren't made...which is likely never.

Again, I don't think you desire to learn. For you to quote his "schedule" as if it is fact and that he has followed through on other such things...means you don't learn from actual events.

Small tariffs or short-term tariffs won't affect much....I paid 6% tariffs on imports from Europe decades ago and it was the norm. There are always tariffs and it's the cost of doing business.

BUT, throwing about large tariffs as a punishment...or "war" is not the same thing.

It's hardly worth discussion since most all who really know have agreed Trump already lost. Everyone who gets his ear for 5 minutes will have an exemption (like Apple)...and, after all, if you don't implement the tariffs on the biggest selling products, then why do them at all?

Small tariffs are often in line with currency fluctuations and other costs...I'd often make more money from buying futures (on the money owed) then I paid in tariffs. That is, you lock in an exchange rate when it is favorable.

But the point stands....that IF (big IF) tariffs were ever to succeed, they'd have to harm the US Customer since the whole idea is for customers to buy less stuff. If customers buy just as much for the same prices then there is no punishment except to shareholders and US Businesses, which I don't think is good policy.

Although, with Trump....who hates American Business, this may just make sense.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:28 PM
 
10,064 posts, read 4,708,431 times
Reputation: 13151
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru5555 View Post
There’s that hyperbolic, baseless BS again; quote my “politically-biased agenda-politics”. Understanding basic economics has *nothing to do* with one’s political affiliation.

It’s a blatant lie to claim that the effects of tariffs can’t be proven using data “because many reasons exist “.

Pure BS, through-and-through.

Lies and hatred of the man and party in power causing you to twist and distort economics. Many reasons do go into price increases. You proudly pimped a chart showing an increase in prices end of 2018 and I simply pointed out the same chart showed a bigger increase in prices in 2011.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:32 PM
 
1,659 posts, read 335,026 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobesmom View Post
Included are lists of products that have been affected by tariffs since July 2018. The lists are too voluminous for me to cut and paste on here.
https://www.ecomcrew.com/trumps-china-tariffs/
Yes I've seen the list several times and even posted a link to USTR.

But which specific product went up in the past year due to the tariff ?
Tell me what costs more today on the Walmart shelves due to the tariff ?

Is it Quaker Oats ? Is it Purina pet food ?

No one can tell me but everyone can point to that list.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:34 PM
 
16,366 posts, read 4,308,715 times
Reputation: 11506
Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
My take home $3000.

- Rent is $1550
- Utilities are $200-250
- Gas or Fare Cards are $100-150
- Food is about $500
- Legal fees about $500 ...because a woman with 2 felonies and 6 involuntary commisions to mental institutions in 4 years, including starting crap with cops and, is currently homeless, still has a decent shot of winning custody even though the man has never gotten so much as a traffic ticket, even though if the genders were swapped the man wouldn't stand a snowflake's chance in hell.

Sorry, real personal beef with that last one...

Point being; $2950 of my $3000 take home is going to services from America. I don't think China is the problem here.
Your point?

I think this thread was specifically about Chinese "trade war" and tariffs. No doubt our 20 Trillion dollar economy is about much more than the 200-300 Billion that tariffs could cost eventually (if fully implemented and retaliated against)....

If the Chinese hardware that your landlord buys to install new door locks costs more, your rent eventually goes up. Much of the utility hardware is also bought from China, from wire to cellular repeaters..to internet core routers and much more. So your utilities go up. And so on.....

At your level (3000 take home) you are not one of those driving the so-called "consumer economy" to the degree many with disposable income are. I'd say that the solid middle class and up would be hit harder.

But, then again, if the company that you worked for depended on Chinese parts, equipment or the supply chain...they will make less and you won't get as big of a raise.

None of this (or not much) is very likely because the trade war was lost before it started. The odds of all the tariffs taking hold for the long run (a year or more) are quite low and, even then, most of the damage would be after that time period as the new equipment had to be purchased. For example, if the 5G cellular equipment goes up in price due to tariffs, the cost of all cellular related services will reflect that.

We are really speaking in theory...as is JPM...big IFs, because Trump doesn't follow through on anything except some of his Golf shots.

Proof is in the pudding. If the China trade deficit gets much smaller faster (outside of a recession here!), then the tariffs are doing something. If it does not, then they aren't.

So far the Deficit has been hitting new records.

TMS thinks, according to logic, that trade deficit should have skyrocketed LOWER...instantly...due to the massive effect of the tariffs.
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:36 PM
 
1,659 posts, read 335,026 times
Reputation: 1915
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
What are you talking about? When is Trump gonna close the Mexican border? You speak of the 11,000 lies he tells as if they are established fact. In one hour Tim Apple made Trump roll back the cell phone deal until the end of the year. That's 100's of billions of dollars worth of product.

Talk to me when those are implemented and exceptions aren't made...which is likely never.

Again, I don't think you desire to learn. For you to quote his "schedule" as if it is fact and that he has followed through on other such things...means you don't learn from actual events.

Small tariffs or short-term tariffs won't affect much....I paid 6% tariffs on imports from Europe decades ago and it was the norm. There are always tariffs and it's the cost of doing business.

BUT, throwing about large tariffs as a punishment...or "war" is not the same thing.

It's hardly worth discussion since most all who really know have agreed Trump already lost. Everyone who gets his ear for 5 minutes will have an exemption (like Apple)...and, after all, if you don't implement the tariffs on the biggest selling products, then why do them at all?

Small tariffs are often in line with currency fluctuations and other costs...I'd often make more money from buying futures (on the money owed) then I paid in tariffs. That is, you lock in an exchange rate when it is favorable.

But the point stands....that IF (big IF) tariffs were ever to succeed, they'd have to harm the US Customer since the whole idea is for customers to buy less stuff. If customers buy just as much for the same prices then there is no punishment except to shareholders and US Businesses, which I don't think is good policy.

Although, with Trump....who hates American Business, this may just make sense.
You stated cellphones and cameras among a host of other items will have higher prices.
They are not on the USTR list.
So where is this list you are using ?
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Old 08-19-2019, 06:37 PM
 
Location: AZ
2,187 posts, read 460,566 times
Reputation: 979
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Lies and hatred of the man and party in power causing you to twist and distort economics. Many reasons do go into price increases. You proudly pimped a chart showing an increase in prices end of 2018 and I simply pointed out the same chart showed a bigger increase in prices in 2011.
Uh-huh. You’re saying that your comically baseless accusations somehow changed the facts which I’ve stated? Additionally, I asked for you to prove my “hatred of the man and party in power”, yet you cannot. Unsurprisingly.

I posted an article which factually supported my point; yet you cannot find fault with the data other than a PPI increase in 2012, indicating increased input-costs for manufacturers. . You do realize, as I’ve previously stated, that the CPI didn’t increase in 2012?

Last edited by subaru5555; 08-19-2019 at 06:48 PM..
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:21 PM
 
10,064 posts, read 4,708,431 times
Reputation: 13151
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Proof is in the pudding. If the China trade deficit gets much smaller faster (outside of a recession here!), then the tariffs are doing something. If it does not, then they aren't.

So far the Deficit has been hitting new records.

TMS thinks, according to logic, that trade deficit should have skyrocketed LOWER...instantly...due to the massive effect of the tariffs.

Aren't you the one saying most tariffs have not yet gone into effect and it will take some time when they do for the effects to be felt? The increased deficit is due to increased buying to stock up before the tariffs. Similar to how sales of guns and ammo spike up when new laws are proposed and passed. That isn't sustainable.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:27 PM
 
10,064 posts, read 4,708,431 times
Reputation: 13151
Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru5555 View Post
Uh-huh. You’re saying that your comically baseless accusations somehow changed the facts which I’ve stated? Additionally, I asked for you to prove my “hatred of the man and party in power”, yet you cannot. Unsurprisingly.

I posted an article which factually supported my point; yet you cannot find fault with the data other than a PPI increase in 2012, indicating increased input-costs for manufacturers. . You do realize, as I’ve previously stated, that the CPI didn’t increase in 2012?
You do realize that you are lying through your teeth again and the CPI did increase in line with the PPI in 2011-2012?

Take another look at your chart. The level of CPI went from about 95 to almost 110, a bigger increase than in 2018. If you can look at this chart and see no upward movement 2011-2012 in CPI then you are proving your dishonesty.


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Old 08-19-2019, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
15,062 posts, read 9,282,401 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
I don’t buy Chinese crap so I won’t pay.
Yes you do we all do.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
15,062 posts, read 9,282,401 times
Reputation: 10027
Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer View Post
Well that's a lie.

The computer you are typing on is almost certainly made in China. If not, then most of the components were. Your wireless router was, as is your cable modem or your DSL modem. Your phone was either made in China or South Korea. Your phone case and charger were almost definitely made in China. If you own a bicycle, it's split between Taiwan and China, depending on the manufacturer and the line. Own a tent? Probably made in China. The LED lights in your house? Made in China. And so on.

It's impossible to avoid buying things made in China as they manufacturer pretty much every vertical for export. Even for things "Made in the USA", most of the times, raw materials or fabrics come from Asia.
I’ve made that same point over and over again they just bury their heads in the sand and ignore the facts.
As I’ve stated I work in a plastic factory we MAKE molds but the screws, tools, and the machines all come from China, there is no way around it.
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