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Old Yesterday, 09:53 AM
 
16,146 posts, read 4,260,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCopeland View Post
Since then, we've seen socialism fail in every real world test-tube.... USSR and all satellite countries, Cuba, North Korea, Venezuela. The only successes are those nominal communist states who adopted capitalism.

The capitalistic countries that adopted socialist policies became sleepy economies (i.e. Western/Northern Europe) where what we take for granted (home ownership, some savings in the bank, economic mobility) are a luxury for the rare few.

The test tube of history without dispute shows that the closest you are to economic/individual liberty, the greater the prosperity.
The test tube of the USA shows, if we are to look at the stagnant wages for 4 decades (while productivity tripled) and the lowering life spans and the dissatisfaction with our system...that something has been very wrong since about 1960....well, even before that if you weren't of the right color or creed.

Millions of people going bankrupt from medical bills...is that something we just need to accept as normal?

46% of people in Florida are not making it. Is that also "success" - DeSantis and Scott say it is. I say it is not.

Sure, if I sit here in the lap of luxury I can say how great things are. But that would require closing my eyes to what is going on around me.

We haven't even addressed the 22+ Trillion and rising which is attempting to bail out our system....but even that can't get the life spans up and the "not making it" down. We all know that is not sustainable.

Our system is perfect at short term thinking and using up stuff now....which will do harm to future generations. But I'm not sure that is something that should be championed.

In any case, the current Admin certainly does not believe in the free market or free trade...or even individual liberty. They want to restrict the internet and the press...to those with the right connections or who only publish Pro-Trump "news".

Our path since at least 2000 has been less liberty...and more debt and deficit.

Savings in the Bank, for most of us, is a buttress against the Predators who might come for us. When I or others seek financial security, it's not for a yacht...it's for medical care and our old age and such. If I lived in a system where I didn't have to worry about this, I wouldn't need as much financial security. AND, everyone would have the same...more relaxed...feeling. As it stands most people DO have to worry, which is not a good thing.

It all depends on what you value. In my view, worrying about luxuries (how big of a house) is somewhat foolish when basic medical care and old age care isn't being covered and when the country has to borrow a trillion a year just to keep things basically financed.
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Old Yesterday, 10:41 AM
 
158 posts, read 32,912 times
Reputation: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The test tube of the USA shows, if we are to look at the stagnant wages for 4 decades (while productivity tripled) and the lowering life spans and the dissatisfaction with our system...

We're not perfect, but this is all a lot of complaining. Arguably we don't have poor people in the U.S., we have broke people who are the victims of their own bad decisions. Still, "poor people" in the U.S. have air conditioning, smart phones, cars, and color TV. Go to Nigeria and you'll see true desperation and poverty, and a system so corrupt as to be without hope. In the U.S., opportunity is handed to you on a silver platter; we benefit from the rule of law. If that blessing is squandered, one only has himself or herself to blame!! America and those who have done well here don't need to apologize for a damn thing, nor do they owe anything to those who have chosen to make bad decisions or not maintain lawful employment, because inthe U.S. if you simply stay employed and don't violate the law, you WILL advance.
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Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,968 posts, read 10,647,942 times
Reputation: 9620
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCopeland View Post
Ahhh..."it was just implemented wrong" lol
It's impossible to implement it right. The only way such socialist/communist theory could ever work is if all adherents are involved voluntarily. And even then (it has been tried many times), it had always failed at some point.

If it is not voluntary, but rather coerced, then even more so there is no way it can ever work. There is too large a percentage of humankind that cannot and will not live under authoritarian collectivism. That would include me. Give me liberty or give me death. As it is, we already have had way too much individual liberty eroded away. We don't need any more stripped from us. If the left wins this war raging in the US, we may as well kiss liberty goodbye. It's back to Lords and serfs who may be provided for but have no reason to live other than for the good of the Kingdom and the merriment of the Lords. Screw that.

Last edited by ChrisC; Yesterday at 01:35 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,968 posts, read 10,647,942 times
Reputation: 9620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
North Korea's constitution describes it as a republic. It takes a certain kind of idiot to use that as a springboard to criticize republics in general. (Not a rare kind of idiot, sadly.)
And I describe myself as a dimetrodon.
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Old Yesterday, 01:26 PM
 
Location: 125 Years Too Late...
10,968 posts, read 10,647,942 times
Reputation: 9620
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Nice talking point but that was over in 2001...whatever was left of it. The Patriot Act and the spending of many TRILLIONS of dollars for a false sense of security was fully accepted (put forth by mostly Republican forces and signed by Bush).....

Today, due to those firearms, the government now has to listen to each work being typed everywhere on the internet...and try to stop mass shooting that way.

And so few are complaining about it.

Do you really claim that any decent percentage of Americans are doing anything about the Security State other than funding it larger and asking it to do MORE? The Trump admin doesn't even want Apple to allow privacy on their phones and other devices.

We certainly spew more BS per capita about how free we imagine we are...while accepting that each word we write is being scanned.
I never claimed that we were free. We haven't been since at least the 1909 - 1918 period and probably since around the time of the Civil War.

However, it's rather stupid to pour gasoline on your house as it is burning down.
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Old Yesterday, 01:41 PM
 
Location: USA
20,075 posts, read 14,874,065 times
Reputation: 12920
Sounds like the same platform as the American Communist party. We already know that Marxism fails Everywhere and every time it is implemented.
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Old Yesterday, 01:50 PM
 
Location: USA
20,075 posts, read 14,874,065 times
Reputation: 12920
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Or even Abe Lincoln (GOP) who was a penpal of Marx and believed in Labor over Capital.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/histo...raham-lincoln/

"Lincoln certainly viewed socialists as allies, and Nichols writes, “It is indisputable that the Republican Party had at its founding a red streak.”

"Abraham Lincoln warmly welcomed the support of Karl Marx during the Civil War and corresponded with him freely."

Can we now get the modern Republicans to stop claiming Lincoln was their man? If so, that's worth a lot.........because, obviously, both Lincoln and Marx considered (and said so) the Southern Way (Slavery, Slaveholders) as damaging to the freedom of mankind.

Lincoln also clearly stated that between Capital and Labor, Labor was King.

So is it no "Alinsky and Lincoln"?
Yeah, Lincoln was a Commuinist now. Communist and Socialist always trying to sell their flim glam. After Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Ortiz, Castro, Kim, Chavez, Maduro, all long after Lincoln, we can see what a failure all out Communism and Socialism have been.
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Old Yesterday, 01:56 PM
Status: "white culture is like living with radiation -IS" (set 18 days ago)
 
947 posts, read 171,705 times
Reputation: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenCopeland View Post
Ahhh..."it was just implemented wrong" lol
central planning is inherently wrong there is no implementing it right
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Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,898 posts, read 17,848,858 times
Reputation: 15903
You can add to that list the following left-wing talking points:

Quote:
11. The abolition of all income obtained without labor or effort.

Breaking the Servitude of Interest.

12. In view of the tremendous sacrifices in property and blood demanded of the nation by every war, personal gain from the war must be termed a crime against the nation. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all enterprises (already) converted into corporations (trusts).

14. We demand profit-sharing in large enterprises.

15. We demand the large-scale development of old-age pension schemes.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle class; the immediate communalization of the large department stores, which are to be leased at low rates to small tradesmen. We demand the most careful consideration for the owners of small businesses in orders placed by national, state, or community authorities.

17. We demand land reform in accordance with our national needs and a law for expropriation without compensation of land for public purposes. Abolition of ground rent and prevention of all speculation in land.

18. We demand ruthless battle against those who harm the common good by their activities. Persons committing base crimes against the People, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished by death without regard to religion or race.

19. We demand the replacement of Roman Law, which serves a materialistic World Order, by German Law.

20. In order to make higher education – and thereby entry into leading positions – available to every able and industrious German, the State must provide a thorough restructuring of our entire public educational system. The courses of study at all educational institutions are to be adjusted to meet the requirements of practical life. Understanding of the concept of the State must be achieved through the schools (teaching of civics) at the earliest age at which it can be grasped. We demand the education at the public expense of specially gifted children of poor parents, without regard to the latters’ position or occupation.

21. The State must raise the level of national health by means of mother-and-child care, the banning of juvenile labor, achievements of physical fitness through legislation for compulsory gymnastics and sports, and maximum support for all organizations providing physical training for young people.

23. We demand laws to fight against deliberate political lies and their dissemination by the press. In order to make it possible to create a German press, we demand:

a) all editors and editorial employees of newspapers appearing in the German language must be German by race;

b) non-German newspapers require express permission from the State for their publication. They may not be printed in the German language;

c) any financial participation in a German newspaper or influence on such a paper is to be forbidden by law to non-Germans and the penalty for any breach of this law will be the closing of the newspaper in question, as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-Germans involved.

Newspapers which violate the public interest are to be banned. We demand laws against trends in art and literature which have a destructive effect on our national life, and the suppression of performances that offend against the above requirements.

25. To carry out all the above we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the Reich. Unquestioned authority by the political central Parliament over the entire Reich and over its organizations in general. The establishment of trade and professional organizations to enforce the Reich basic laws in the individual states.

The Party leadership promises to take an uncompromising stand, at the cost of their own lives if need be, on the enforcement of the above points.
Sounds a lot like Bernie. Well sort of-this lacks the screeching of Bern-and uses bigger words than I believe he is capable of.
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Old Yesterday, 11:52 PM
 
32,919 posts, read 16,844,057 times
Reputation: 17770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_N_1962 View Post
central planning is inherently wrong there is no implementing it right
Central planning won a World War. One of the reasons the US kicked the Axis' rearside was that the Nazis were a bunch of fumbling amateurs who couldn't put their industry on a proper war footing - whereas the US allocated resources with very little regard to anything but efficiency.
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