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Old 08-21-2019, 02:55 AM
 
4,933 posts, read 2,403,455 times
Reputation: 5830

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo101 View Post
Did you go to school ? if so how did you avoid this supposed evil Far Left Progressive liberal indoctrination?
Many of us are in our 50' and 60's so there wasn't the push with the liberal ideas back then - but we've seen the progression of such when our own children and our grandchildren attended college. I fail to see how even liberals can't see the push in institutions for far left thinking - you should be rejoicing and yet you don't see it - which seems to mean - your own indoctrination has you completely hypnotized and you are unable to see things and think for yourself.

 
Old 08-21-2019, 03:28 AM
 
Location: Metro Seattle Area - Born and Raised
777 posts, read 310,245 times
Reputation: 1876
Nothing is wrong with a "higher" education, but how many "lower" achievers really need a college degree? Seriously, how is a college degree going to help an individual with a "lower" level of motivation and drive succeed in the Real World? For many of these individuals, going to a trade school is far more realistic since A) it's cheaper and B) gets them into the labor market quicker.

I my part of the country, the PNW, skilled tradesmen/women earn between $45-$60 an hour with year round employment. Master level tradesmen/women with advance certifications, earn far more.

I my career, I've interviewed several newly graduated college students who have ZERO understanding how things really are in the business world. Many feel that they should be started off at a mid-level pay point, without proving their worth first. We tend to hire people with some college AND some experience with the real world over those with a soft college degree, such as a four-year Liberal Arts degree.

I do not have a four-year degree, but some college, two years. What I brought to my organization is real life experience, which is gained through living in the Real World and doing what it takes to make it. In my case, I started off at the bottom and worked my way up. Without a four-year degree, I've managed to earn two pension plans and now working on the third. When I fully retired at the age of 58, in the next year and a half, I'll be taking home more a month than I do working.

The youth in my organization, in the age group of 25 to 35, have to make several decisions if they want to succeed and move up. The ones who fail to make the right decisions tend to fall to the side and wither away... Basically, only the strong survive in the game of live and that's the way its always been AND will always will be.

I know many millennials are attracted to the Socialist's ideal of "everybody with stuff, sharing their stuff with individuals with no stuff." But once they start to succeed in life and earn their own "stuff," that Socialist BS tends to fade away very quickly since they see that through hard work, they can make it.

Today, I had to be very frank with a co-working who isn't moving forward in his career. I had to inform him that he had failed himself since most of his peers that were hired at the same time have rocketed forward and enjoying far better pay. We basically, we sat down and came up with a one to two year career plan that will get him where he wants to be. Most important, that its his plan and its up to him to either succeed or fail.

Hard work, drive and motivation is often far more important than a "soft" four-year college degree. Yes, if your goal is to be a doctor or an engineer, you will need advance education, which involves a lot of "hard work, drive and motivation."

NOTE: I'm not knocking any four-year degrees at all since it's still an great achievement and something to be very proud of.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 05:12 AM
 
6,441 posts, read 5,523,047 times
Reputation: 8921
Quote:
Originally Posted by bergun View Post
Nothing is wrong with a "higher" education, but how many "lower" achievers really need a college degree? Seriously, how is a college degree going to help an individual with a "lower" level of motivation and drive succeed in the Real World? For many of these individuals, going to a trade school is far more realistic since A) it's cheaper and B) gets them into the labor market quicker.

I my part of the country, the PNW, skilled tradesmen/women earn between $45-$60 an hour with year round employment. Master level tradesmen/women with advance certifications, earn far more.

I my career, I've interviewed several newly graduated college students who have ZERO understanding how things really are in the business world. Many feel that they should be started off at a mid-level pay point, without proving their worth first. We tend to hire people with some college AND some experience with the real world over those with a soft college degree, such as a four-year Liberal Arts degree.

I do not have a four-year degree, but some college, two years. What I brought to my organization is real life experience, which is gained through living in the Real World and doing what it takes to make it. In my case, I started off at the bottom and worked my way up. Without a four-year degree, I've managed to earn two pension plans and now working on the third. When I fully retired at the age of 58, in the next year and a half, I'll be taking home more a month than I do working.

The youth in my organization, in the age group of 25 to 35, have to make several decisions if they want to succeed and move up. The ones who fail to make the right decisions tend to fall to the side and wither away... Basically, only the strong survive in the game of live and that's the way its always been AND will always will be.

I know many millennials are attracted to the Socialist's ideal of "everybody with stuff, sharing their stuff with individuals with no stuff." But once they start to succeed in life and earn their own "stuff," that Socialist BS tends to fade away very quickly since they see that through hard work, they can make it.

Today, I had to be very frank with a co-working who isn't moving forward in his career. I had to inform him that he had failed himself since most of his peers that were hired at the same time have rocketed forward and enjoying far better pay. We basically, we sat down and came up with a one to two year career plan that will get him where he wants to be. Most important, that its his plan and its up to him to either succeed or fail.

Hard work, drive and motivation is often far more important than a "soft" four-year college degree. Yes, if your goal is to be a doctor or an engineer, you will need advance education, which involves a lot of "hard work, drive and motivation."

NOTE: I'm not knocking any four-year degrees at all since it's still an great achievement and something to be very proud of.


Oldest DD (now 33) didn't opt for college, although we (DH and I) wanted her to and strongly urged it. She thought college was all about pushing social experiences, partying (keggers), sex, and liberal thinking. I countered that nobody was going to force her to go to parties, date (aka have sex), or develop liberal thinking, They have book clubs, don't they? I have friends whose kids mostly let what their liberal professors said go in one ear and out the other...some are members of the Young Republicans. Not a SJW in the bunch. College is what you make it.

I can't argue that she hasn't done all right with her life...owns a successful business, a huge house, and is happily married with two kids. She wouldn't have that huge house if she had to pay student loans, as her DH does.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 05:27 AM
 
6,648 posts, read 3,685,112 times
Reputation: 7559
Should be qualified as schooling/training beyond just a HS diploma. My husband's niece's husband is a Master Plumber. He has said he has never been out of work a day in his life, or had his job off shored like my IT husband. The man also does freelance jobs on the side as well. He does very well financially.

Some years back I knew a woman who was on welfare. NYS had a program where a woman on welfare could go to a Trade School and the state would pay for it. After completing her training, she got a job as an Electrician with a starting salary of $45/hour. Cannot live and support herself and her children on those wages?
 
Old 08-21-2019, 05:30 AM
 
Location: Haiku
4,700 posts, read 2,744,044 times
Reputation: 6869
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731 View Post
Many of us are in our 50' and 60's so there wasn't the push with the liberal ideas back then - but we've seen the progression of such when our own children and our grandchildren attended college. I fail to see how even liberals can't see the push in institutions for far left thinking - you should be rejoicing and yet you don't see it - which seems to mean - your own indoctrination has you completely hypnotized and you are unable to see things and think for yourself.
Higher education is dominated by liberals, or at least Democrats. But this isn't some conspiracy, it is just that Democrats are more inclined to take lower paying University jobs than Republicans are. If conservatives don't like this, the solution is simple - convince more young conservatives to be teachers and professors.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Ohio
5,175 posts, read 1,871,791 times
Reputation: 4337
Most people that are in a discipline like engineering pay little attention to the "indoctrination" they might or might not be getting in their humanities courses. Mastering advanced calculus, thermodynamics, heat transfer and fluid dynamics permits little if any time to even think about fluff like that. My experience anyway. Plus people that are in STEM fields are usually highly logical folks, and are generally immune to "indoctrination" from any source,
 
Old 08-21-2019, 06:05 AM
 
6,648 posts, read 3,685,112 times
Reputation: 7559
Quote:
Originally Posted by xray731 View Post
Many of us are in our 50' and 60's so there wasn't the push with the liberal ideas back then - but we've seen the progression of such when our own children and our grandchildren attended college. I fail to see how even liberals can't see the push in institutions for far left thinking - you should be rejoicing and yet you don't see it - which seems to mean - your own indoctrination has you completely hypnotized and you are unable to see things and think for yourself.
My DIL's Mom just turned 60. She is a Railroad Conductor and is set to retire in 2 years with a full Pension. How many women became Conductors back in those days? She had to go to school after HS for that, but not college. Her parents were from Puerto Rico. She is Bi-Lingual. Helps on the job? She worked full time while raising her three children and all crazy hours. That must have been a culture shock for her family as a woman, no? Dorothy is a very liberal Democrat. You don't think a woman in a typical male's occupation wouldn't be? Imagine how much discrimination she must have faced on multiple fronts?

She (divorced for 5 years) recently bought a house in Florida and intends to be a Snowbird in her retirement. Don't weep for her.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 06:12 AM
 
2,517 posts, read 685,357 times
Reputation: 2620
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
Meh, Republicans don't need Doctors anyway.


Thanks, I needed that!
 
Old 08-21-2019, 06:14 AM
 
20,498 posts, read 11,428,915 times
Reputation: 20665
Quote:
Originally Posted by GearHeadDave View Post
Most people that are in a discipline like engineering pay little attention to the "indoctrination" they might or might not be getting in their humanities courses. Mastering advanced calculus, thermodynamics, heat transfer and fluid dynamics permits little if any time to even think about fluff like that. My experience anyway. Plus people that are in STEM fields are usually highly logical folks, and are generally immune to "indoctrination" from any source,
The lean to leftward looniness in universities is a byproduct of urging everyone to go to college. A rigorous university education requires higher than average intelligence...but the average person does not have higher-than average intelligence. It's hard to water down STEM, a bit harder to water down the Humanities, but not hard at all to water down the social sciences.

Those instructors who are not in STEM fields still have to come up with something for their Masters theses and Doctoral dissertations, and it need only appear scholarly...it doesn't actually have to be functionally valid. Nothing labeled "Studies" should be a major.

What has happened in higher education is similar to what Roger Williams predicted about religion. Roger Williams (who brought the concept of "separation of Church and State" to America) feared that when government required everyone to be a Christian and made Christianity a social advantage, then Christianity would be filled with people who should not be there, and people who used it only for its social advantage would become its leadership.

That's what has happened with government urging everyone to go to college.
 
Old 08-21-2019, 06:32 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,090 posts, read 34,565,438 times
Reputation: 15621
Here is the actual survey:

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essa...her-education/

42.4% of working adults make less than $15/ hr. Likely most of this group does not have a 2 or 4 year degree.

90% of midsize and large employers offer a tuition subsidy benefit, less than 10% of employees use the benefit.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/compani...fer-1528682580

Last edited by middle-aged mom; 08-21-2019 at 06:43 AM..
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