There is no such thing as an assault weapon or an actual ban on them (ammunition, vs)
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The fact that an M16 can shoot 800 rounds per minute vs AR15 600 rounds per minute ( my estimate) is meaningless and of course limited by clip size (magazine) which is normally 20. Neither belongs in civilian hands.
Make your case that someone needs that firepower.
"Neither belongs in civilian hands." You are entitled to that opinion. Fortunately we have 2nd Amendment which says otherwise. " the rightof thepeople to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
It does NOT say ONLY arms allowed by Congress. It did NOT specify which arms which is why they did NOT say arm like cannons, warships SEMI-automatics, or arms that could hold 26 bullets be banned, which ALL were available at the time. How do you explain THAT?
Unless you want to change the meaning of the word "arms" and 'infringed", like the left likes to do all the time.
"Make your case that someone needs that firepower", We know, people like you would rather see these people who defended themselves DEAD! And i DOUBT you will read a single one of them.
"Deputies got the call at 8:21 p.m. Wednesday and went to the home at 14999 SE 32nd Court Road in response to a report of shots fired. Sgt. Micah Moore found Doyle with a gunshot wound and a shotgun next to him on the ground. Deputies entered the home and found Jackson dead on the dining room floor. Detectives said he was wearing a “Jason” mask on top of his head, gloves on both hands, jeans and a black shirt.
Near Jackson’s head was a semi-automatic pistol, detectives said.
Continuing into the home, deputies found the 61-year-old homeowner in a bedroom. He had an AR-15 rifle on his legs and was bleeding from a gunshot wound to the stomach, according to sheriff’s officials. Doyle and the homeowner were transported to Ocala Regional Medical Center, where Doyle died.
What are YOU going to use when 2 guys break into YOUR home armed with a shotgun And a semi-automatic pistol?
Mar 14, 2018 - Law-abiding citizens purchase millions of AR-15s (and similar rifles) for one ... The AR-15 is a preferred self-defense weapon in large part because it is more ... African-American men guarded the gas station and convenience store of a ... A homeowner's 19-year-old son used an AR-15 to defend himself ...
Jul 16, 2019 - One Marion County, Florida man, decided to use an AR-15 to defend himself and his home during an attempted robbery which left two of the ...
Mar 28, 2017 - A 23-year-old Oklahoma man used a semiautomatic AR-15 rifle to shoot ... justifies a person using deadly force in order to protect themselves ...
Jul 15, 2019 - This Florida Man showed everyone once again that yes, the AR-15 has a ... with an AR-15 shot and killed two intruders and was injured himself ...
Jul 13, 2019 - We know one central Florida man who would beg to differ with those ... But remember, AR-15 rifles are weapons of war and have no place in a civil society. .... pipes or bazooka as long as people can defend themselves,their ...
Jan 4, 2019 - These AR-15 self defense stories are prime examples of times when the ... A guy with an AR-15 defended himself and three others from a gang ...
Jul 15, 2019 - A homeowner used an AR15 to stop an armed home invasion in ... The homeowner said one of the men had knocked on the door earlier, asking for ... with an AR-15 shot and killed two intruders and was injured himself during a ... The story illustrates many of the advantages of the AR15 for home defense.
Sep 24, 2013 - 5 People Who Used An AR-15 to Defend Themselves, and It Probably Saved Their ... The man grabbed his AR-15 and pointed it at the intruder.
Apr 4, 2017 - Man who killed would-be burglars with AR-15 won't be charged ... right of our citizens, the right to bear arms and to defend their homes,” Elliott ...
Last edited by Quick Enough; 09-14-2019 at 06:31 AM..
Okay, I stand you off against someone with an M16 and you get an AR15. Considering that your opponent can deliver 3 times, at least, the lead that you can..........do you really want to go into battle with a semi automatic rifle? Do you really think you can call the latter a combat rifle?
Full auto capability has become obligatory for individual weapons in combat today. The Russians pretty well established that standard when they fielded the AK 47. At any rate I'm going to have some fun with your post here just for giggles because I know you like to toss flies in the pie. LOL. So do I at times.
So in that spirit, I'm going to change up your hypothetical a bit. Truly an AR 15 against an M 16/M4 is a bit of a lopsided match up in terms of sheer firepower. If memory serves the M 16 is capable of somewhere around 700 rounds per minute maximum SUSTAINED rate of fire. That's not allowing for mag changes. Still I can spit out the lead.
The AR 15 is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 or so rounds a minute EFFECTIVE rate of fire. Not spray and pray but aimed fire that hits the target. Effective and sustained rate of fire being equally applied to each weapon changes things up a bit in the match up. The M16 unquestionably has the advantage as under full auto or burst fire it is still quite controllable and can place it's rounds pretty well on target whereas semi auto fire tends to wander wildly as one tries. to just pull the trigger as fast as they can.
So if I was limited to a semi auto weapon against the M 16 and using the "stand off" scenario you posted above I would choose an M1A (or possibly a Garand) and "stand off" at 5-600 yards. Firing from the prone preferably behind cover but we will keep it even there. I suppose I'm nit picking the difference twixt "stand off" and "stand up". In this case I offer here I would have the advantage for as my assailant unleashes his barrage I'm pinpointing his position at a stand off distance pushing the effective range limits of his ammunition. At that same distance my ammunition in the aforementioned platforms is just starting to stretch its legs a bit.
And a single well placed round is game over. Rates of fire from either weapon wouldn't matter. Haha, there. That's for throwing the spanner in my gears by tossing in hand to hand engagement into our "no shoot" situation in our CCW course. Which really truly did bother me to the point I brought it up in an instructor meeting and caused a ...lively...discussion. The end result of which is that if anyone ever does that in that stage (or better just brings it up verbally to whoever is ROing at the time) we will give a pass.
lawmakers make laws, not respond to polls. if it were the latter, we'd have laws changing with people's whims ...
"hey, some terrorists flew some planes into some buildings killing thousands, let's round up all muslims, the majority of the people are in favor of common sense terrorist control"
plus, our lawmakers are pretty much impotent and unable to address other major issues facing the nation, why would this be any different?
This is different because what you don't understand is that lawmakers make laws to the "whims" of paid lobbyists by cutting backroom deals.
Originally Posted by Listener2307 I think that's it in a nutshell.
You and I may disagree with exactly what we want them to do, but their cowardice is on full display on nearly every issue.
People play around and argue with the definition of assault rifle, while politicians argue and play around with who should be sold guns. Politicians fruitlessly attempt to engage in people control while they announce they are engaging in gun control.
For me, sales of clip fed and magazine fed weapons, which can be rapidly reloaded, to civilians should be banned forever. I don't think I'll ever see the day when it will happen, but that is my preference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floorist
So you would eliminate most hunting rifles made in the last 60 years, even 22s? All 300-400 million or more of them.
If you do not understand what a clip fed and magazine fed mean, then you should look it up. It is central to my statement.
Whether any weapon is eliminated should be entirely up to the owner. If he wants to sell it to the government, the door should be open. He should not be able to sell it to anyone else, period. And he would never be able to replace it since they would no longer be sold to civilians.
I have no interest in when the gun was invented or how long it has been owned.
This is why I started this thread. Bans don't ban. Ban them forever it won't matter. Everyone still purchased, owned and used these firearms during the Federal 10 year ban.
Useless and unenforceable. Window dressing symbolism.
No.
Owners were allowed to keep them, but no one made a legal purchase of the 18 guns that were banned in 1994.
Mass shooting plunged during the years 1994 - 2004, although gun crime did not.
If the weapons being discussed were not sold in stores, not sold in gun shows, and could not be legally purchased by anyone at all, there would be nothing to ban and nothing to inspect. It would be every bit as effective as banning the public sale of hand grenades, which has worked very well.
Any one who needs, " clip fed and magazine fed weapons, which can be rapidly reloaded" shouldn't be hunting! They are idiots, not skilled hunters!
The only people who use high capacity magazines to "hunt" are not hunters. Only poachers do that. The one exception maybe being feral hog hunting where thinning number via attrition is actually needed. I use my AR for varmint hunting. I only use a 5 round magazine when I do even though for varmints there is no regulation in the hunting laws on mag capacity.
However a great many people hunt big game with AR platform rifles in heavier calibers using 3 and 5 round magazines. Hunting laws limit capacity in all types of rifles to these numbers. A semi automatic has no advantage in LEGAL hunting over any other action type except maybe speed of a follow up shot.
All semiautomatic hunting rifles are fed via a detachable box magazine and can be rapidly reloaded. But a Remington 7400 does not have the scary modern ergonomics that an AR style rifle has, that being the only difference which is very negligible. And many aftermarket makers offer high capacity magazine for rifles like the 7400 which to the grabber mindset makes it an "assault rifle."
These aforementioned magazines are NOT legal for hunting. But they are available. If I were a rancher on a remote border area of say TX and I had a 7400 I would own a good number of these mags. That is if I didn't already own an M1A and an AR or two.
I guess the biggest point I wish to stress here is that what I need and for what purpose is my business and mine alone. I don't consider what other people might think. For hunting no, I don't need high capacity, and in most cases that's illegal anyway. For defensive purposes I very well might need it, and I have it on hand. I also need it for certain competitions like 3 gun and other action disciplines.
Any one who needs, " clip fed and magazine fed weapons, which can be rapidly reloaded" shouldn't be hunting! They are idiots, not skilled hunters!
Well, A and B. A: The 2nd amendment is not about hunting.
B: There are enough accounts of hunters who thought they only need a few rounds, went off chasing after their game, and got lost in the forest. So say it is you and to add to the complexity, say you fell down a gully and broke your arm.
Which would you rather have at that point? A rifle you have to load each round with one hand or a few box magazines (with the -15, decently light), preloaded, where you can just snap in the magazine?
Oh, and then there is C. A known hunter distress signal is 3 rounds fired, a minute apart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307
....... And he would never be able to replace it since they would no longer be sold to civilians.
I have no interest in when the gun was invented or how long it has been owned.
If you have no interest in tyranny, then that could be okay......because limiting the population to 19th century technology while the government gets modern technology is certainly tyranny.
The only people who use high capacity magazines to "hunt" are not hunters. Only poachers do that. The one exception maybe being feral hog hunting where thinning number via attrition is actually needed. I use my AR for varmint hunting. I only use a 5 round magazine when I do even though for varmints there is no regulation in the hunting laws on mag capacity.
However a great many people hunt big game with AR platform rifles in heavier calibers using 3 and 5 round magazines. Hunting laws limit capacity in all types of rifles to these numbers. A semi automatic has no advantage in LEGAL hunting over any other action type except maybe speed of a follow up shot.
All semiautomatic hunting rifles are fed via a detachable box magazine and can be rapidly reloaded. But a Remington 7400 does not have the scary modern ergonomics that an AR style rifle has, that being the only difference which is very negligible. And many aftermarket makers offer high capacity magazine for rifles like the 7400 which to the grabber mindset makes it an "assault rifle."
These aforementioned magazines are NOT legal for hunting. But they are available. If I were a rancher on a remote border area of say TX and I had a 7400 I would own a good number of these mags. That is if I didn't already own an M1A and an AR or two.
I guess the biggest point I wish to stress here is that what I need and for what purpose is my business and mine alone. I don't consider what other people might think. For hunting no, I don't need high capacity, and in most cases that's illegal anyway. For defensive purposes I very well might need it, and I have it on hand. I also need it for certain competitions like 3 gun and other action disciplines.
The odd thing is there is no round cap for hunting in CA with a featureless rifle. How backwards is that?
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