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Old 08-21-2019, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701

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Quote:
Originally Posted by branDcalf View Post
You have no understanding of the strategic importance of Israel's geographic location to the US. And have no idea what the aid the US gives is for.
OK.

And why should I be forced at gunpoint to give them welfare? I never consented.

Sounds pretty socialist to me.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Abortions, free college, and blowing the heads off babies in Damascus.

What do I win?
Miniature American flags.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC View Post
That's something of a loaded question. In it's present form, yes. In it's idealized form, not really. What is its idealized form? Taxation should be (and at one time was) simply a fee for service rendered. Just like any other free market transaction. The government provided a service, the "servicee" pays for that service.

The first problem with what we have now is this: who decides which services are to be offered by the government? The second: why do some recipients get serviced for free? The third: why should a given service be more expensive if the recipient is rich, given that the service provided by the government is the same (or even less) for that rich person? There are many more problems as well.

Somewhere along the line folks got the idea that tax was, rather than a fee for service rendered, a handout for some and a penalty on success for others. Tax is suppose to be for certain universally offered services provided by the government, NOT to support your neighborhood welfare queen or crackhead, or to punish your rich neighbor.
Exactly.

It's about competition and the free market, and not the forced use of government services.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
It's not in that it pays for public works and services. It's an imposition, not necessarily a theft.
If I am forced to pay for services I don't use it is theft.

If I own a business which provides a better product than the government I am prohibited from offering it or competing with the government. That is theft of my labor.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:41 PM
 
13,017 posts, read 4,014,733 times
Reputation: 3907
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
If I am forced to pay for services I don't use it is theft.

If I own a business which provides a better product than the government I am prohibited from offering it or competing with the government. That is theft of my labor.
Not really, if you are allowed access to it. Just because you don't use it doesn't make it theft. If I pay for a bunch of channels on cable TV that I never watch, does that mean the cable company is stealing from me?
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Out West
23,005 posts, read 17,034,061 times
Reputation: 26612
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Libs and lefties need not respond, because we all know what your answer will be.

Do you, or do you not, believe that taxation is theft? If not, why?
Yes.

And as I said to you in another thread, I do understand that some people, heavy on the "SOME", need assistance because they cannot care for themselves, or they fell on hard times.

I'm more in favor of donations for the hard time folks, but what do you do about those who can't take care of themselves?

Anything else, I'm sick of my money being stolen for politician's pet projects.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,141 posts, read 4,761,798 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
It's not in that it pays for public works and services. It's an imposition, not necessarily a theft.
Was taxation theft when it was imposed by the King? The King may have built roads, and maintained harbors, but didn't he take a whole lot for himself?

When a road is built does everyone use it? Does everyone want it? My city spent a lot of my tax money for a basketball team, but I hate basketball.



In the United States we have something called "eminent-domain" where the government can take your land. Of course with eminent-domain the government has to pay you for your land, but where does it get the money to buy your land? Isn't it taking your money then "buying" your land with it?


Eminent-domain is often used to build things like shopping malls, parking garages, and casinos. Are those public works? Are the taxes taken to fund those things theft?


Where is the line?
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,141 posts, read 4,761,798 times
Reputation: 2891
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
If I pay for a bunch of channels on cable TV that I never watch, does that mean the cable company is stealing from me?
If they force you to buy a subscription you don't want, and take your money without your permission, that is theft.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Not really, if you are allowed access to it. Just because you don't use it doesn't make it theft. If I pay for a bunch of channels on cable TV that I never watch, does that mean the cable company is stealing from me?
No. And you know why?

Because you signed a voluntary contract with the cable company. No one alive has signed a social contract with the government. Taxation isn't voluntary.
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Old 08-21-2019, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,657 posts, read 1,979,435 times
Reputation: 1701
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Yes.

And as I said to you in another thread, I do understand that some people, heavy on the "SOME", need assistance because they cannot care for themselves, or they fell on hard times.

I'm more in favor of donations for the hard time folks, but what do you do about those who can't take care of themselves?

Anything else, I'm sick of my money being stolen for politician's pet projects.
It really doesn't matter the situation, to be honest.

The taking of the fruits of someone else's labor is theft. Period.
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