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Old 08-21-2019, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,433 posts, read 2,924,923 times
Reputation: 2777

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https://www.salon.com/2019/08/21/how...-man-die-sony/


Salon is a left wing site.

Now the Spider-man IP is no longer being shared by Disney and Sony because the larger company wanted to take half of Sony's profits for each stand along film they make.

Sony rejected the aggressive take-over and lost Disney's support for Spider-man as a member of the Marvel Cinematic Universe (owned by Disney).


Now Salon could easily complain about corporate consolidation, IP abuse, and corporatizing films into an algorithm that makes blockbuster sales.

Instead because the author likes Disney movies, pretends its all Sony's fault for the fall-out and hopes to empower corporate Disney to buy the rights to Spider-man.

What does this show? That it's well and easy to decry faceless Wall Street Hedge Fund Managers who abuse our economy but when it comes to consumers not getting everything they want values and principles go out the door.

Case in point, no one cares about what is good for society, they want instant gratification no matter the cost and find abstract ways to disentangle the two.

Sadly both are interconnected no matter what. You can not separate your personal comfort and enjoyment from corporate power and economic practices that allow them to happen.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:00 PM
 
5,793 posts, read 1,165,078 times
Reputation: 2281
Off-topic: If you want to look further into the politics meeting entertainment, look into how media companies are pushing an SJW agenda into their products, especially comic books. Also, Disney, Comcast, AT&T, and some other media giants are too big!

On-topic: How much Disney is too blame for Spider-Man leaving the MCU is anyone's guess. While I recognize there is the continuity issues of taking Spidey out of the MCU, if the Marvel writers are capable of all these reboots and retcons for their comics, I would imagine they could figure out how to write Spidey out of the MCU!

Last edited by Eumaois; 08-21-2019 at 06:09 PM..
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,433 posts, read 2,924,923 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Off-topic: If you want to look further into the politics meeting entertainment, look into how media companies are pushing an SJW agenda into their products, especially comic books. Also, Disney, Comcast, AT&T, and some other media giants are too big!

On-topic: How much Disney is too blame for Spider-Man leaving the MCU is anyone's guess. While I recognize there is the continuity issues of taking Spidey out of the MCU, if the Marvel writers are capable of all these reboots and retcons for their comics, I would imagine they could figure out how to write Spidey out of the MCU!
Hollywood companies are pretty consumer forward, so they think socially progressive messages is how to become popular among the younger crowd.

Its foolish to imagine they are doing it because of public pressure or principle, its all about money.

As for Disney, the so called king of content makes money from reboots, cross-overs, and other story gimmicks that can almost guarantee a certain revenue threshold.

Personally I think its ridiculously bad behavior to praise, if Spider man was a stand along superhero it wouldn't have a larger universe to piggy back on and would have to come up with an interesting plot. Even the original films of the MCU weren't really great in of themselves, but they held the promise of more which significantly added to their value.

I think the fact that Disney is the number one company in content shows main stream audiences prefer poor character development along with internet friendly moments and shareable events. Even the Netflix marvel shows use darkness and maturity as a placement for depth.

Making a story is about conveying emotions through a plot about love, loss, fear, happiness, insecurity, bravery, and laughter; Instead Marvel uses corporate planning like social commentary, art/costume design, cross over events, and basic usages of sexual appeal and cooperation to make their stories have a sense of the former.

If anything these things Marvel uses should have an elliptical affect, but shouldn't be the core of the movies you produce. They do it because it can be easily measured and marketed towards an audience.

And people like it, so even when the same people don't like corporatizing society, they make exceptions for what they like and pretend they are being consistent. Obviously we don't know who is more to blame, but its obvious that Disney was the one putting pressure on the relationship, so why should they be treated like the victims.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,433 posts, read 2,924,923 times
Reputation: 2777

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJxKF-5ZVTw


So not only did Sony counter with a 30/70 offer, disney was also coming after all their IPs, not just spiderman. This is insane.

How can any one defend Disney. Its the people who fall for the MCU and think its good that cause this in the first place.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:29 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,433 posts, read 2,924,923 times
Reputation: 2777
Looks like Spiderman is back in the MCU.

Depressing, now all the rabid fans will cheer as Disney becomes more of a corporate monopoly in entertainment.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:40 PM
 
5,793 posts, read 1,165,078 times
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They merged with most of the Fox Empire, so nice to see Disney lose ties to an Marvel IP even with for a few weeks.
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Old 09-27-2019, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,433 posts, read 2,924,923 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
They merged with most of the Fox Empire, so nice to see Disney lose ties to an Marvel IP even with for a few weeks.
I wish sony hadn't caved.

A lot of fans were pressuring them to return to the serial movie model called the MCU because of continuity.

The mouse wins again.
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Old 09-28-2019, 01:00 AM
 
5,793 posts, read 1,165,078 times
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-My take on pending and completed media mergers or buy-outs:
A. Overall take: Company A (has a collective revenue of exactly $10 billion at most) buys out Company B (has a toal revenue of exactly $1 billion at most). However, an effort is made to preserve each company's history and there are provisions are made to have as few lay-offs as possible and services are made to help the laid-off employees get new jobs. Above $10 billion is "suck it!"

B. Misc. rants:
-For Rupert Murdoch to be able to sell most of the Fox Empire to whoever, he and the Murdoch clan would have to sell off their control of the current NewsCorp. Yep, they would have to give up control of one media empire in order to sell another. That way, the Murdoch media mogul days would be closer to an end!

-For Comcast to have gotten Fox, they would have to have sold off Telemundo, their stake in Fandango, NBC Owned Television Stations, what they own of British media company Sky, and the sports and news channels that gives them the most media control, which may or may not include NBC Sports Group. I wonder how Carl Laemmle would feel about what Universal has become under Comcast's control.

-If Disney sold their ownership of A&E Networks, what they control of ESPN, Lucasfilm, and Pixar, as well as some news channels and other sports channels, I would be less opposed to them buying out most of Fox. That is because they would have be required to relinquish a lot of their empire. The smaller Disney could be, the better it is in my eyes.

-What SHOULD have happened: Disney sells off the aforementioned brands to a non-Comcast, AT&T, or Fox company. After than, Fox sells the X-Men and Fastastic Four-related TV/movie rights to Disney. In exchange, Fox gets Lucasfilm. That way, Star Wars would be back with the (formerly) major movie company that helped popularize the franchise.

-Fox would also have to downsize a bit by selling these brands to a non-Comcast, AT&T, or Disney company: Star India, Endemol Shine Group, National Geographic Partners, what they had of Tata Sky, and their stake of the Big Ten Network. I am merely assuming but I think William Fox would have wanted his namesake empire to sell off a bit to allow for more competition.

-For AT&T to get WarnerMedia, ATT should have to have sold off as many of their telecommunications (wireless, TV, Internet, local telephone services, and long distance services) companies they had prior to the merger as possible, especially DirecTV. In addition, WarnerMedia would have to similarly sell off the 3 or 4 media companies that gives them the most money that isn't a WB or DC company or subsidiary!

-Now, big money-makers like CNN or Cartoon Network can stay though HBO would have to be sold. In addition, each company prior to the merger would have to sell the sports and news channels that gave them the most money and media control.

-If Sony was to buy-out a smaller media company (say, Lionsgate), they would have to sell-off Sony Music Entertainment and Sony Interactive Entertainment Worldwide Studios. At least Sony is lacking on the sports and news channels which means their media control is not as far-reaching.

-For the Viacom and CBS re-merger, the following would have to be sold-off: the Network Ten, the Westinghouse Electric Corporation, and Simon & Schuster, and the various news or sports channels that give these companies the most media control. Also, if possible, they would be relinquished from National Amusement's control and now be their own entity.

The less control the big American media giants have over news outlets the better as that would allow for more competition and perhaps more fair and balanced journalism!

-Shame on Rupert Murdoch for selling off most of the Fox Empire, for the USDOJ permitting a semi-monopoly, and Disney for buying. 1000s of lay-offs are not worth it. Uncle Walt and film producer William Fox would not approve of this merger.

Last edited by Eumaois; 09-28-2019 at 01:09 AM..
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Old 09-28-2019, 02:54 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
23,871 posts, read 11,843,029 times
Reputation: 4418
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Looks like Spiderman is back in the MCU.

Depressing, now all the rabid fans will cheer as Disney becomes more of a corporate monopoly in entertainment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJxKF-5ZVTw


So not only did Sony counter with a 30/70 offer, disney was also coming after all their IPs, not just spiderman. This is insane.

How can any one defend Disney. Its the people who fall for the MCU and think its good that cause this in the first place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
I wish sony hadn't caved.

A lot of fans were pressuring them to return to the serial movie model called the MCU because of continuity.

The mouse wins again.
1a. Disney owns Marvel and Marvel created Spiderman, Spiderman has has always been apart of the Marvel comic universe. Your argument seems to be that you thought these were independent entities that randomly got put together because people thought the characters were cool. If im wrong, my mistake, but your argument seems to be centered around believing spiderman itself is independent of Marvel, it is not, nor has it ever been.

1b.Sony did buy the movie rights 20 years ago when Marvel was about to go bankrupt, but that is it. In comics and in TV shows, Spiderman is and always has been part of a larger shared universe. (Again if you already knew this and i misread your post, my mistake)

2. Because Sony owns the movie rights, Marvel(now owned by Disney), cant make a movie about Spiderman without their permission.

3. in 2015, these 2 companies came to a secret deal that has never been fully disclosed to the public, but we have leaks and industry speculation.

4. One of those leaks was that Disney was paying 50% of production cost because of their "ownership of creative control" and outright owning merchandising. Mind you, Sony does not pay the other 50%, there is a 3rd production company with Spidey films, so Sony only pays 25%

5. Because Sony still owns the film rights, they demanded 95% of box office.

so on a film that costs 300 million to make(150 million of that being Disney) and grosses a billion dollars, Disney actually loses money on the film. Disney only breaks even when it comes to back end promotion and toy sales.

So your argument for being Anti-Disney in this case makes no sense. Disney asking for 50% gross when paying 50% of cost isnt unreasonable.

Last edited by dsjj251; 09-28-2019 at 03:04 AM..
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Old 09-28-2019, 09:10 AM
 
5,793 posts, read 1,165,078 times
Reputation: 2281
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
1a. Disney owns Marvel and Marvel created Spiderman, Spiderman has has always been apart of the Marvel comic universe. Your argument seems to be that you thought these were independent entities that randomly got put together because people thought the characters were cool. If im wrong, my mistake, but your argument seems to be centered around believing spiderman itself is independent of Marvel, it is not, nor has it ever been.

1b.Sony did buy the movie rights 20 years ago when Marvel was about to go bankrupt, but that is it. In comics and in TV shows, Spiderman is and always has been part of a larger shared universe. (Again if you already knew this and i misread your post, my mistake)

2. Because Sony owns the movie rights, Marvel(now owned by Disney), cant make a movie about Spiderman without their permission.

3. in 2015, these 2 companies came to a secret deal that has never been fully disclosed to the public, but we have leaks and industry speculation.

4. One of those leaks was that Disney was paying 50% of production cost because of their "ownership of creative control" and outright owning merchandising. Mind you, Sony does not pay the other 50%, there is a 3rd production company with Spidey films, so Sony only pays 25%

5. Because Sony still owns the film rights, they demanded 95% of box office.

so on a film that costs 300 million to make(150 million of that being Disney) and grosses a billion dollars, Disney actually loses money on the film. Disney only breaks even when it comes to back end promotion and toy sales.

So your argument for being Anti-Disney in this case makes no sense. Disney asking for 50% gross when paying 50% of cost isnt unreasonable.
Correction: while Marvel Comics/Studios may have the comic book and TV rights to Spidey, it was Steve Ditko and Stan Lee who made Spidey as we know him.
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