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Old Today, 07:33 AM
 
5,223 posts, read 1,602,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Illegals are subjects of another country and their offspring are not to be included with birthright citizenship .. it was misinterpreted for many many years. It should be corrected now.
Given that the drafters of the 14th Amendment defined "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States as anyone "bound by [US civil and criminal] law," you are invited to explain in detail how illegal aliens or their offspring are not subject to US jurisdiction.
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Old Today, 07:51 AM
 
Location: Texas
27,155 posts, read 11,402,803 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
Given that the drafters of the 14th Amendment defined "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States as anyone "bound by [US civil and criminal] law," you are invited to explain in detail how illegal aliens or their offspring are not subject to US jurisdiction.
lol Using bound by law on people who break the law. Since when do we reward people for breaking the law?The anchor babies fall on the jurisdiction of their parents.

The 14th amendment - people had a green card, were here legally, and they said that their children were citizens.

"Eastman wrote that undocumented immigrants, like foreign tourists, "are subject to our laws by their presence within our borders, but they are not subject to the more complete jurisdiction envisioned by the 14th Amendment as a precondition for automatic citizenship."
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Old Today, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,553 posts, read 13,957,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
Illegals are subjects of another country and their offspring are not to be included with birthright citizenship .. it was misinterpreted for many many years. It should be corrected now.
Says you and Steve King but SCOTUS in Wong Kim Ark disagree:

Quote:
The question presented by the record is whether a child born in the United States, of parents of Chinese descent, who, at the time of his birth, are subjects of the Emperor of China, but have a permanent domicil and residence in the United States, and are there carrying on business, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the Emperor of China, becomes at the time of his birth a citizen of the United States by virtue of the first clause of the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution,

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. (Wong Kim Ark Majority opinion)
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Old Today, 08:16 AM
 
5,223 posts, read 1,602,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
lol Using bound by law on people who break the law. Since when do we reward people for breaking the law?The anchor babies fall on the jurisdiction of their parents.

The 14th amendment - people had a green card, were here legally, and they said that their children were citizens.

"Eastman wrote that undocumented immigrants, like foreign tourists, "are subject to our laws by their presence within our borders, but they are not subject to the more complete jurisdiction envisioned by the 14th Amendment as a precondition for automatic citizenship."
In what way are undocumented immigrants less subject to State and Federal civil and criminal laws than legal immigrants or, for that matter, US citizens?
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Old Today, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,553 posts, read 13,957,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loveshiscountry View Post
lol Using bound by law on people who break the law. Since when do we reward people for breaking the law?The anchor babies fall on the jurisdiction of their parents.

The 14th amendment - people had a green card, were here legally, and they said that their children were citizens.

"Eastman wrote that undocumented immigrants, like foreign tourists, "are subject to our laws by their presence within our borders, but they are not subject to the more complete jurisdiction envisioned by the 14th Amendment as a precondition for automatic citizenship."
Seriously? Green cards weren't issued until 1940. The 14th amendment was passed in 1868, regulation of immigration wasn't even a federal responsibility until 1870 and it wasn't until 1921 that a quota for the number of immigrants was established.

Eastman's argument is silly because there were no restrictions on immigration in 1868 when the 14th Amendment was being drafted and ratified, so there was no debate on whether the Citizenship Clause confers automatic citizenship on the children of illegal immigrants, want more info on that? Here you go: Settled law: Birthright citizenship and the 14th Amendment - AEI
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Old Today, 08:24 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
9,286 posts, read 8,089,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
Seriously? Green cards weren't issued until 1940. The 14th amendment was passed in 1868, regulation of immigration wasn't even a federal responsibility until 1870 and it wasn't until 1921 that a quota for the number of immigrants was established.

Eastman's argument is silly because there were no restrictions on immigration in 1868 when the 14th Amendment was being drafted and ratified, so there was no debate on whether the Citizenship Clause confers automatic citizenship on the children of illegal immigrants, want more info on that? Here you go: Settled law: Birthright citizenship and the 14th Amendment - AEI


But, but, but, they really want it to be relevant. Surely that counts for something. No?
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Old Today, 08:30 AM
 
5,223 posts, read 1,602,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
But, but, but, they really want it to be relevant. Surely that counts for something. No?
Proponents of the argument that illegal immigrants (as opposed to legal immigrants) are not subject to the jurisdiction of the US for 14th Amendment purposes are well-advised to read the majority opinion in Plyer v. Doe., where the Supreme Court held that "no plausible distinction with respect to the 14th Amendment ‘jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.” Plyer v. Doe, 457 U.S. 202 (1982).
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Old Today, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Florida
21,808 posts, read 11,256,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
Given that the drafters of the 14th Amendment defined "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States as anyone "bound by [US civil and criminal] law," you are invited to explain in detail how illegal aliens or their offspring are not subject to US jurisdiction.
If they enter illegally they do not respect our laws .. they first will not be subject to our laws or to the US jurisdiction. They made that choice by entering illegally. They are also subjects of another country , the country they came from.
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Old Today, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Living rent free in your head
31,553 posts, read 13,957,907 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
If they enter illegally they do not respect our laws .. they first will not be subject to our laws or to the US jurisdiction. They made that choice by entering illegally. They are also subjects of another country , the country they came from.
If they aren't subject to our laws, how can we arrest them?
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Old Today, 08:45 AM
 
37,708 posts, read 16,678,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
If they enter illegally they do not respect our laws .. they first will not be subject to our laws or to the US jurisdiction. They made that choice by entering illegally. They are also subjects of another country , the country they came from.
Exactly! What excludes them from our birthright citizenship is the qualifying clause of "and" subject to the jurisdiction, thereof. I anyone born on our soil were an automatic citizen that qualifying clause would never have been written in there.
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