U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old Today, 08:52 AM
 
5,235 posts, read 1,602,787 times
Reputation: 3046

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taratova View Post
If they enter illegally they do not respect our laws .. they first will not be subject to our laws or to the US jurisdiction. They made that choice by entering illegally. They are also subjects of another country , the country they came from.
You are conflating the violation of US laws with being subject to US laws. But those are two totally different (and, in fact, contradictory) things. Second, you are inaccurately attributing the parentsí illegal acts to a child born afterwards to argue that the child (as opposed to his/her parents) has somehow renounced being subject to US jurisdiction (impossible anyway) by virtue of those illegal acts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Today, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
5,261 posts, read 2,879,863 times
Reputation: 3981
Illegal immigrants and anyone residing in the US is subject to US law.

To claim otherwise is absurd and is why Trump will not succeed in single handedly overruling the Constitution.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:58 AM
 
13,198 posts, read 4,046,107 times
Reputation: 3946
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEPLimey View Post
Given that the drafters of the 14th Amendment defined "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States as anyone "bound by [US civil and criminal] law," you are invited to explain in detail how illegal aliens or their offspring are not subject to US jurisdiction.
The same way American Indians who were born and living in the US weren't considered citizens because they were subjects/citizens of another nation. In the common law which defines words in law and the constitution 'subject' means a person with full allegiance, not someone born with allegiance to another nation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
5,261 posts, read 2,879,863 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The same way American Indians who were born and living in the US weren't considered citizens because they were subjects/citizens of another nation. In the common law which defines words in law and the constitution 'subject' means a person with full allegiance, not someone born with allegiance to another nation.
The Indian case is subject to another nation within the US border, and was such because our government gave the Indian nations some degree of autonomy.

Your logic would basically mean anyone who comes here from a foreign country is not subject to our laws because their allegiance is to another country but that’s obviously not how it works.

So again, anyone within the US border is subject to US law, including the Indians. Our laws just gave that one group a carve out on certain jurisdictional items.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:02 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
9,289 posts, read 8,089,070 times
Reputation: 3938
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2sleepy View Post
If they aren't subject to our laws, how can we arrest them?


Indeed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:05 AM
Status: "Make sure you include me in your manifesto" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
8,357 posts, read 3,276,382 times
Reputation: 14954
I will believe Trump is serious about this issue when he issues an executive order that can be challenged and ruled on in the courts and not one minute before.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
5,261 posts, read 2,879,863 times
Reputation: 3981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Seven View Post
I will believe Trump is serious about this issue when he issues an executive order that can be challenged and ruled on in the courts and not one minute before.
The fact that he hasnít issued such an order probably means he has received legal advice communicating what little chance it would have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:45 AM
 
5,235 posts, read 1,602,787 times
Reputation: 3046
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The same way American Indians who were born and living in the US weren't considered citizens because they were subjects/citizens of another nation. In the common law which defines words in law and the constitution 'subject' means a person with full allegiance, not someone born with allegiance to another nation.
American Indians who were not born on autonomous Native American land were entitled to birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment, just like legal and illegal immigrants.

As an aside, if your belief that the phrase "subject to the jurisdiction [of the United States]" in the 14th Amendment meant "a person with full allegiance, not someone born with allegiance to another nation" was accurate (it isn't), then Fred Trump, whose German-born mother was not a US citizen, and his progeny are not US citizens.

Last edited by TEPLimey; Today at 09:57 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:55 AM
 
67,114 posts, read 30,748,742 times
Reputation: 8799
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchampagne232000 View Post
But all I've read here the past 3 years is that illegal immigrants are the new welfare queens? Say it ain't so!
They're enrolling their anchor babies in public assistance programs (SNAP, housing subsidies, welfare, Medicaid, you name it... obviously, the parents receive manage the public assistance benefits/payments on behalf of their minor children), who aren't even supposed to be 14th Amendment birthright citizens. In WKA, Justice Gray specifically limited the ruling to the US-born children of those permanently domiciled in the US. IOW, LPRs. Illegal aliens aren't permanently domiciled in the US. They aren't even supposed to be here at all. Their legal permanent domicile is their home country, the one which would issue their passport were they to have one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 09:58 AM
 
13,198 posts, read 4,046,107 times
Reputation: 3946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Seven View Post
I will believe Trump is serious about this issue when he issues an executive order that can be challenged and ruled on in the courts and not one minute before.
I agree. Trump needs to issue the order win or lose while he still can and stop dangling it out as a carrot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top