U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Today, 07:27 AM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,579 posts, read 6,544,522 times
Reputation: 12145

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
For the record, our government revoked Snowden's passport leaving him stranded in Russia.

I, for one, am thrilled that we learned how dirty our government is. They were lying under oath about what they were doing and not a damn thing happened to them.

And let's not forget Obama's list, for God's sake.
Snowden is not a stupid man. He knew his passport would be revoked, which leads me to think that he never had any intention on going to Latin America to begin with. Not to mention that the US operates regularly within Latin America and smuggling him out of one of those countries wouldn't be the most difficult thing to do. But, again, he's not dumb and he knew this.

So, instead, he chose to arrive in Hong Kong, People's Republic of China. I note the "People's Republic of China" specifically because the extradition treaty between Hong Kong and the United States explicitly authorizes the PRC to "refuse surrendering a person if it thought the surrender "relates to (its) defense, foreign affairs or essential public interest or policy." https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...extradition-us

But, again, Snowden knew this, just like he knew that the US would cancel his passport and he knew that Russia did not have an extradition treaty with the US. Thus, its awfully convenient and hypocritical that Snowden--after complaining of alleged abuses by the US government--decides to go to two jurisdictions that are ultimately overseen by governments having terrible human rights abuses.

Lastly, any slight possibility of sympathy from me for Snowden (and I write slight possibility only for the sake of argument as he'd get zero from me, especially considering that there were legal means for Snowden to become a whistle blower, to include sharing what he thought were problems with a member of Congress, to include a far left member of Congress who would ensure that the issue would receive adequate publicity) because he not only leaked information about behavior and techniques he thought violated the US Constitution concerning collection on US citizens, but he also leaked information about behavior and techniques about US spying on our adversaries, to include China Spying on the Chinese government breaks no US law/constitutional provision and is what governments do. The need to give the Chinese a heads up of our techniques was treasonous and, I suspect, used as insurance policy to get the Chinese a reason to refuse to extradite him. He's a treasonous scumbag in my book who deserves to hang.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Today, 09:59 AM
Status: "Censorship is for totalitarians" (set 12 days ago)
 
78 posts, read 12,482 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
I know that conservatives may leap in to insult, but many people, including me, consider him a hero.

He speaks very well, so I'll be curious to see if he writes well, too.

https://ew.com/books/2019/08/01/edward-snowden-memoir-permanent-record/

https://www.newsweek.com/edward-snowden-permanent-record-nsa-constitution-day-1452879

https://www.newsweek.com/edward-snowden-permanent-record-nsa-constitution-day-1452879


Permanent Record
By Edward Snowden
Metropolitan Books

https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250237231
Thanks for posting! I put it on my to read list. Snowden is a hero in my eyes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,389 posts, read 10,320,893 times
Reputation: 20569
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Snowden is not a stupid man. He knew his passport would be revoked, which leads me to think that he never had any intention on going to Latin America to begin with. Not to mention that the US operates regularly within Latin America and smuggling him out of one of those countries wouldn't be the most difficult thing to do. But, again, he's not dumb and he knew this.

So, instead, he chose to arrive in Hong Kong, People's Republic of China. I note the "People's Republic of China" specifically because the extradition treaty between Hong Kong and the United States explicitly authorizes the PRC to "refuse surrendering a person if it thought the surrender "relates to (its) defense, foreign affairs or essential public interest or policy." https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...extradition-us

But, again, Snowden knew this, just like he knew that the US would cancel his passport and he knew that Russia did not have an extradition treaty with the US. Thus, its awfully convenient and hypocritical that Snowden--after complaining of alleged abuses by the US government--decides to go to two jurisdictions that are ultimately overseen by governments having terrible human rights abuses.

Lastly, any slight possibility of sympathy from me for Snowden (and I write slight possibility only for the sake of argument as he'd get zero from me, especially considering that there were legal means for Snowden to become a whistle blower, to include sharing what he thought were problems with a member of Congress, to include a far left member of Congress who would ensure that the issue would receive adequate publicity) because he not only leaked information about behavior and techniques he thought violated the US Constitution concerning collection on US citizens, but he also leaked information about behavior and techniques about US spying on our adversaries, to include China Spying on the Chinese government breaks no US law/constitutional provision and is what governments do. The need to give the Chinese a heads up of our techniques was treasonous and, I suspect, used as insurance policy to get the Chinese a reason to refuse to extradite him. He's a treasonous scumbag in my book who deserves to hang.
You may be right - he could have thought it through enough to have known. It didn't appear to be that way in Citizenfour, however.

I have no sympathy for Snowden either. I'm just less incensed by what he did than I am by what was revealed because of what he did. And I'm really puzzled by people who don't seem to care about the aggressive overreach of our government - but apathy seems to be in the water when it comes to our civil liberties.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 10:23 AM
 
4,932 posts, read 1,297,471 times
Reputation: 2304
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
You may be right - he could have thought it through enough to have known. It didn't appear to be that way in Citizenfour, however.

I have no sympathy for Snowden either. I'm just less incensed by what he did than I am by what was revealed because of what he did. And I'm really puzzled by people who don't seem to care about the aggressive overreach of our government - but apathy seems to be in the water when it comes to our civil liberties.
Apathy and brainwashing because the Patriot Act was the foot in the door under the guise of security.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,389 posts, read 10,320,893 times
Reputation: 20569
Quote:
Originally Posted by redwood66 View Post
Apathy and brainwashing because the Patriot Act was the foot in the door under the guise of security.
Bingo. And when you say this to most people they **** their head to the side like confused dogs.

Watch, someone will post, 'What civil liberties have we lost?' Wake up, folks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 04:04 PM
 
6,678 posts, read 2,023,788 times
Reputation: 6277
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Thanks for heads up, OP. Another good book for those interested is No Place to Hide by Glenn Greenwald. He's a lawyer and journalist, and was Snowden's close confidante who guided him through the rocky shoals.
I like Greenwald a lot. I read the book, and I heard him speak once - he was great, fluent and even funny. I also admire his willingness to be eloquently combative when attacked. But I have to say that lately I think he's been going off in unsettling directions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve9999 View Post
I consider him a traitor for divulging extremely damaging information concerning the U.S. From a political perspective, the left should hate him more since he exposed all the illegal spying that was going on during the Obama-Biden administration.
Yes, I know that many consider him a traitor. However, from a political perspective, my acquaintances on the left admire Snowden very much for his willingness to risk his comfortable life to expose the truth. In my experience, Democrats are more willing to appreciate truth, and less invested in being forced to kowtow to a leader. That's why so many Democrats were open about their disapproval for some of Obama's actions. Also, you have to take into account that although I may fault Obama, it clearly began under Bush.

Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I'd volunteer to pull the switch on the electric chair myself. The man is a disgrace who stole information and then fled to hostile territories (you know the Russians have access to all of that information, which Snowden took with him, even if Snowden doesn't realize it), exposing many lives to risk in the process.
You do know, I hope, that Snowden didn't choose to be stuck in Russia? He was just passing through. I agree that I wish he were out of there - and all it would take would be for the U.S. to reinstate his passport. I think he was originally en route to Germany or Equador.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 04:55 PM
 
11,136 posts, read 2,893,498 times
Reputation: 7518
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
I'd volunteer to pull the switch on the electric chair myself. The man is a disgrace who stole information and then fled to hostile territories (you know the Russians have access to all of that information, which Snowden took with him, even if Snowden doesn't realize it), exposing many lives to risk in the process.
Exposing the corrupt govt, spying on its own people, FAR outweighs the negatives imo!! He is a hero and a true patriot in my book.


I guess you consider the men who took part in the Boston Tea party, to be petty criminals too...right? after all, they stole property that did belong to them and destroyed it by dumping it into Boston harbor...all because they didnt agree with the taxation!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top