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Old 08-23-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,047 posts, read 2,105,246 times
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/u...koch-dead.html


A profound enemy of the union movement. While Charles and David were brilliant in growing their businesses they and those who are like them are the reason that you hoped Trump was telling the truth.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,509 posts, read 2,952,889 times
Reputation: 2807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Not true. Millions of Americans care about humane treatment of those seeking asylum in our country. They care about providing a path to citizenship for the "Dreamers". Not because it enriches our lives, but because we think it's right.

Many people care about protecting the unborn. Others care about preserving reproductive choice for women. Either way, not for their personal enrichment.

Tell all the people who volunteer to feed the homeless, build houses with Habitat for Humanity, befriend the mentally challenged, teach Sunday School, etc that they don't believe in anything.

I'm in a relatively high income bracket. I could call for more big tax cuts, to hell with the national debt, slash funding for welfare, environmental protection and infrastructure. That would enrich me personally. But I guess I care about the future of this country.
Personal enrichment doesn't have to be about maximizing income.

People who engage in social movements and activism do so as a personal contribution to their own lives.

I know many people who have ambitions to make the world a better place. But what does that mean?

Is making the world a better place about increasing the average lifespan of humans? Is it about increasing wages? If those are the standards then the central government in China must be far and above any activist group in the world.

The natives left in America are generally upper middle class white collar workers, so to them European settlement must have been a great thing. That is the measurement you are using.

In fact corporate America oversaw the transfer of wealth towards developing countries on the pacific rim. The workers left behind in America have food stamps for basic sustenance, social security payments, and basic welfare to keep living within reason.

On the flip side corporate investment created wage growth in Shenzhen, Pudong, and Zhengzhou to people without the standard of living of their American counterparts. That would mean the board members who made that decision must be greater than any social activist holding up signs in New Mexico or Brooklyn New York.

So what's the point of social activism if not to benefit one's own life. Maybe it feels good, or maybe having an ideology to support gives people something to fill their lives.

But if it was about helping others, would any of these social activists be out their if it hurt their lives? I'm asking in all seriousness.

If promoting a social cause made people lose their house, friends, or hurt their link to what makes them happy would they do it?

But back to the question of what makes people's lives better. If people who have the ambition to become a humanitarian or create a life saving medicine are doing it to make the lives of others better, what is better?

What if what they are doing is making the same people's lives worse. Does it matter?

And if better is an objective term then what's the point of believing in anything as everyone must believe in the same thing.

If better is subjective then a terrorist must think themselves a humanitarian just like someone fighting for gay rights.

The difference is many socially engaged people, the same ones you are talking about, aren't concerned with the affects of their actions, but their social value.

I have a cousin who graduated medical school and is already making a six figure salary, she thinks she is making the world a better place with her work. That is what she cares about. But what does that have to do with the rest of the world.

What does that have to do with the values of society, or what type of place you live in. If asylum seekers are allowed in with no education is it better for them to work on a crop field to give you cheap fruit products at the grocery store?

Would it be better if they became the next Steve jobs and got to live in a mansion. Does that make it worth it, is that why immigration activists fight?

Altruism has nothing to do with social activism. The type of people who like altruism are Lycurgus and Hitler. Altruism is about creating a national identity and a loyal population who will work for a greater good.

But what does it matter if we don't know what that greater good was for? Lycurgus's communalization of society lead to a hyper leap in military technology and state power against Sparta's enemies.

The Helots produced more food for everyone, the population increased, and Sparta dominated a greater labor class to feed its people. I guess that makes him good? or does it?

Maybe it was right, maybe it wasn't. Was Stalin's five year plan good? Russia was weak for decades, its peasants were bullied and invaded, their crop fields burned. Stalin's rapid industrialization ended the threat of invasion. After the German invasion Russia would never be destroyed again.

What about countries that weren't industrialized? Like Nicaragua, Afghanistan, Somalia, Vietnam? People don't care about those places, they had no military that could strike back or any importance to the global economy that must be reckoned with. They were bombed and destroyed. Russia wasn't.

Speaking of bombing and destroying Japan was a poor country after world war 2. Many American's thought they would never recover and they never did for a time. The people deurbanized briefly, poverty skyrocketed, and access to clean water plummeted. People had to work hard for what they had. And they did collectively. They survived and made the best of it. Some criminal organizations arose to supply some demand, tribal commerce in the city grew, but sickness and death were always around the corner.

Was that bad? Probably. Especially in Tokyo were the fire bombings decimated the city. MacArthur and Truman were hero's then when they decided to decimate Korea after the Northern Invasion. The need for military shipments from Japan created a booming economy there that lasted until 1989. It transformed their society, made its people richer and healthier. I guess the obliteration of Korea was a great humanitarian event.

People interested in making the world a better place should build a shrine to the Korean War. People who want to make the world a better place often don't concern themselves with the mundane or the average place of workers in society. They probably don't live or work with the people who never make anything of themselves.

The life of someone who does nothing great is irrelevant to the ambitions of someone wanting to make the world a better place. That is why so many political activist look down in despise at people who don't help suffering children but could.

And why not? I guess if you are an average American who isn't political but could help voice support for dying asylum seekers, you are a bad person.

And why shouldn't these same 'humanitarians' hate these people? By their own standards these people are watching as others drown while they could help. Isn't that the definition of a bad person?

Or maybe the certainty of what you are doing makes this situation seem reasonable. Is what you're doing helping people? What is good? What is the end goal? Does it matter?

I'm sure like many American's you felt awful for citizens of Sarajevo suffering from the siege in the 90s. Would it make sense then that people there feel nostalgia for the 90s?

Everyone was working together to survive, now people are alone again working jobs for money with no real social connection, or at least not like before.

Does this make war good? Is that true with every war?

But the question is what do you want with society, where do you want it to be. How do you want people to live. The Koch's cared enough to dedicate themselves to their mission, Americans joining a protest does not qualify as the same thing.

And none of it has to do with altruism. Of course people account for themselves when they believe in something, but that something is different from the person you want to be. I'm sure there are many successful hard working people out there, changing the world in their own way, but that is not something everyone can believe in, or a society people can be a part of, that's about yourself and being who you want to see yourself as.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Online
656 posts, read 235,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastforme View Post
No he’s wasnt. These rich commie scum bags along with soros wanted to continue flooding the country with third world poor so they could be come richer and we all become the underclass
Underclass? What's that?
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:05 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
1,523 posts, read 1,458,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/23/u...koch-dead.html


A profound enemy of the union movement. While Charles and David were brilliant in growing their businesses they and those who are like them are the reason that you hoped Trump was telling the truth.
Populist candidates are nothing new in the US. Usually a populist candidate actually believes in his message, unlike our current liar in chief. One would think that many who voted for Trump realize now that he has no beliefs other than his own ego.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Online
656 posts, read 235,975 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
For an endgame.

They knew what they wanted for society; open borders, free trade, and globalized labor policies.

I may not like that goal but at least they believed in it. They would never support someone who was detrimental to that vision.

Most Americans don't believe in anything, they only care about themselves and their family in the narrowest terms. How do we enrich our lives they think.

But when it comes to society they don't think, because they don't care. Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren, it doesn't matter, as long as our party wins.


They don't care what republicans or democrats believe, they just want their side to win because its a team sport. Win a few social victories in the media or a tax cut, anything that gives the elliptical sense of winning.

But when it comes to what type of world you live in, what are the values that drive society, they shell up and mumble about personal responsibility.

Because they don't care. They don't truly believe in anything, they see the world as nothing more than a platform for themselves and their loved ones to live and work, they don't believe in anything bigger. They don't believe in a country, in a society, in shared values, or aesthetic development.

The Koch brothers at least believe in something, something they are willing to stand up for. Even if that thing is wrong.
Very well-said! We might not agree with their beliefs but at least they believed in something.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Online
656 posts, read 235,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
Well good point and he was totally anti Trump but I hate to speak ill of the dead....going to be hard for me not to feel happy when Soros goes down with his meeting his boss Lucifer face to face.
This thread is about Koch. You can start one when Trump or Soros die.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: New York
582 posts, read 497,848 times
Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lycanmaster View Post
You could say that about the mainstream conservative movement in general.

Conservatives haven't "conserved" anything.
Exactly. This is why trump continues to be popular despite being a buffoon. He is the only one advocating for American culture. The gop sold the country to Mexico long ago.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:30 AM
 
10,629 posts, read 6,566,186 times
Reputation: 8826
Illegal aliens are in mourning. The only good thing I can think to say is that he invested heavily in cancer research.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,338 posts, read 5,958,303 times
Reputation: 6893
Rip.
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Old 08-23-2019, 11:41 AM
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
13,289 posts, read 6,830,843 times
Reputation: 12933
Rest in power, Freedom Warrior.
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