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View Poll Results: can a ne'er-do-well be a good leader?
yes. 18 50.00%
yes, but not Trump 14 38.89%
no. 2 5.56%
other (please explain below). 2 5.56%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 02:14 AM
 
12,481 posts, read 3,388,996 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Well. that is not exactly low born.........

That's like saying he might not fit in with the royal family.

The "never do well" "low born" has zero to do with what's left of society (not much) BUT, when you consider that Epstein and such WERE the movers and shakers in NYC and Palm Beach Society and Trump partied with him, that means Don was part of the scene.

The Vanderbilts don't really exist any more...except for Andersen Cooper on CNN (he is one)....

Heck, Nixon couldn't join a NYC Co-op. John Lennon could.

But none of this has to do with low-born or never-do-well...become a great leader.

I think Truman is perhaps a good example. Lincoln also. Even Obama and Clinton....whether people like them or not, they are not from high society and are/were considered good leaders (historically).

So the answer is yes. But I can't see where it relates to Trump...except in the opposite.

"Can someone born to riches and given billions really end up being a complete loser?".....well, yes, and there are a LOT of examples of this.

In fact, Andersen Coopers family includes Reginald...a Vanderbilt of the 2nd generation who liked puzzy grabbing, fancy cars, horses and booze. His insides melted at age 45.
Yeah, I know Anderson Cooper is a Vanderbilt.

My point was that low born and high born, in the eyes of some people, isn't entirely financial in the eyes of some people, and it seemed as though you were making a delineation that was only financial.

Here are some anonymous posts from Data Lounge from the Summer of 2016 that make my point. The question was whether or not Trump will be accepted back into NYC High Society when he loses, and some posts made the point that, in their view, he was never truly there...and some stated why:

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/17...-high-society-

At least one person mentioned something that I have long said. That his lack of true acceptance by NYC High Society bugs him/represents a chip on his shoulder. I think that contributed to his decision to run for POTUS (Trump to himself: I'll show them).

I also think it's interesting that the people posting don't seem to dislike him because he's from Queens, and his lack of pedigree, but because of his general behavior, his cheapness, and his lies. And some posted that they like his brother Robert and his family, and like Ivanka and Ivana.

One person posted "If your family wasn't on "Mrs. Astor's Four Hundred" list you're a nobody whether it's 1892 or 2016".

_____

^^^^ The actual influence or importance of old money NYC "High Society" is irrelevant when it comes to Trump. How my previous point relates to Trump is that, irrespective of the actual importance of those people, the ultimate snub matters to Trump.

______

Malcom Forbes bought the Social Register in 1976.

In 2014, the Forbes Family sold it to long time listed member Christopher Wolf

This article cracked me up for several reasons......that JFK couldn't resist a girl with a little Social Register in her.....that Kim Kardashian not being included would even need to be explained , etc. :
https://nypost.com/2014/11/01/forbes...oney-families/


This article represents, in part, the new owner 'puffing his wares':
https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/spo...ruits-2771295/


This article sort of goes to your point about, essentially, the disgraced (the errant Vanderbilt) in such families:
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...213-story.html
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Old Yesterday, 01:13 PM
 
2,351 posts, read 682,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Thread Title

Can a ne'er-do-well, low-born, person of ill-repute nonetheless become a great leader?
Well...that formula sure didn't work for Obama. Then again...Obama wouldn't have been a great leader even if he had been born with every natural advantage one could think of.
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Old Yesterday, 03:04 PM
 
7,171 posts, read 2,602,729 times
Reputation: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
On that note, a fun read is to look when some glitch on Workd of Warcraft caused a plague in the online world that spread. Researchers actually studied it as a look into how a society would react.

Probably a good experiment for what No_Recess wants can be done digitally.
The comparison of real world to MMO falls flat because in the MMO, there is no penalty other than inconvenience. In the real world, there's death.

Griefers in MMOs grief because there is no reason not to. even if the person they attempt to grief kills them, it is a few minutes of delay and annoyance, and they are right back to griefing. The real world has no such rezz mechanics, so comparisons are apples to roof nails.
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Old Yesterday, 06:20 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,854 posts, read 685,553 times
Reputation: 1255
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Ah, so what you meant to say is that TRUMPS FATHER was born to a Middle Class business owners...Ma and Pa type of business.

Sorry, but based on the title I thought perhaps you were being honest and not just trying to tell the world that Trump comes from humble beginnings. He doesn't. No one here would say that someone who inherited 2 BILLION dollars (in todays money) was low-born.

It's just a new definition you made up....because TrumpWorld is opposite world. He is a moral and honest man. He is "conservative"...and very nice. He is a great POTUS (last on the list according to facts now) and he also has a New Origin Story which you are trying to spread.

Sorry......

"His mother was Scottish-born housewife and socialite"
"Using his inheritance (350K in todays money in 1918), Fred Trump and his mother Elizabeth founded Elizabeth Trump & Son. Donald Trump later renamed it the Trump Organization"

So, his MOM was a socialite - his Father had many millions when Don was born....AND, his father got that money from HIS inheritance....

C'mon, T, have at least a tiny bit of honesty here. Trump is the completely opposite of low born....i.e. in the 1%.

And I'm being nice...probably in the .1% or higher.

No, not low born. But if you want to discuss OTHER successful people who truly were low born (Lincoln, Clinton and even Obama) we can do so......

"He is the son of William Jefferson Blythe Jr., a traveling salesman who had died in an automobile accident three months before his birth" (Clinton)

Lincoln...of course we know about the Log Cabin.

Obama?
"his father was a foreign student on a scholarship."
"Wife - her father joined the United States Army and her mother worked at a Boeing plant in Wichita."

That's a lot further down the totem pole but leagues ahead of my Italian ancestors who worked the mines, warehouse jobs and as an elevator operator. I'd say they were somewhat low-born.
That's a whole lot of words to dispute the definition of "low born," which is entirely subjective in any case. You're trying to nail jello to a wall here.

I say that since grandpa Trump was an operator of brothels, grandson qualifies as 'low born.' You say no because papa Trump was a multi-millionaire. We're each entitled to our opinion. And in something that is strictly opinion, there's no proving who is right and who is wrong.
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Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
9,193 posts, read 2,609,391 times
Reputation: 4875
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
That's a whole lot of words to dispute the definition of "low born," which is entirely subjective in any case. You're trying to nail jello to a wall here.

I say that since grandpa Trump was an operator of brothels, grandson qualifies as 'low born.' You say no because papa Trump was a multi-millionaire. We're each entitled to our opinion. And in something that is strictly opinion, there's no proving who is right and who is wrong.
Now to be fair, most accept that low born would be, born to a clan or family with no means or wealth. Throughout history we have seen wealthy families, considered well bread that had their fingers in crime up to their shoulders. Basically it is a term of snobbery used by the elite.

A good example of scumbags who also had money would be the Kennedy clan. Talk about robbing your way to the top. Old Joe was as dirty as they came, yet the left adores the Kennedy family for some reason.
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Old Today, 06:38 AM
 
10,327 posts, read 12,094,178 times
Reputation: 6612
Can a ne'er-do-well, low-born, person of ill-repute nonetheless become a great leader?

Hillary tried....
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