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View Poll Results: can a ne'er-do-well be a good leader?
yes. 4 33.33%
yes, but not Trump 7 58.33%
no. 0 0%
other (please explain below). 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Today, 06:07 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,804 posts, read 674,424 times
Reputation: 1210

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There is no shortage of ne'er-do-well US presidents. JFK was a sex addict and indifferent student, who finished in the bottom third of his class at Harvard. He dropped out of Stanford MBA school after a semester. His takeaway comment about Stanford U: "the gals are quite attractive...."

LBJ was a true cretin who would conduct staff meetings while he was sitting on the toilet. He also held meetings regularly in the White House swimming pool, where everyone was required to swim nude as that was LBJ's preference. LBJ was tall, and liked to sadistically take staff members to a part of the pool where he could stand with his feet on the pool floor, while shorter staff members would have to tread water while discussing an issue.

Even Ike, now often regarded as a boy scout, had discipline issues at West Point. His main interest was playing football, and he was an inveterate prankster. Then there's Bill Clinton--no comment necessary; Barack Obama, of 'shroom gang' fame; and Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration, whose personal life was often a mess. Reagan admitted to going on a womanizing binge after divorcing his first wife.

If we look back at Old Testament history, we find numerous flawed leaders, who were nonetheless raised up by the good Lord. King David might be the epitome, but there are many others. Jephtath, from the book of Judges (chapters 11-12), was son of a prostitute who became a leader of a kind of youth gang. He wound up as a military leader, and a judge who presided over Israel for six years.

Can a ne'er-do-well nonetheless be an effective or even great leader? What do you think.
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Old Today, 06:14 PM
 
30,216 posts, read 16,660,128 times
Reputation: 14024
Why do you need a k̶e̶e̶p̶e̶r̶ leader?
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Old Today, 06:18 PM
 
17,503 posts, read 8,845,622 times
Reputation: 10085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Why do you need a k̶e̶e̶p̶e̶r̶ leader?
Because utopia doesn’t exist.
To the op, obviously there are examples, so yes.
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Old Today, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Lee County, NC
2,372 posts, read 763,852 times
Reputation: 2738
Very few people are born leaders, it's usually learned.
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Old Today, 06:22 PM
 
5,373 posts, read 3,070,854 times
Reputation: 3277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Why do you need a k̶e̶e̶p̶e̶r̶ leader?
Typically societies(even animal societies) have them. Naturally the strongest/smartest hast a following. For present time “strongest/smartest” is not a term id use though..
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Old Today, 06:24 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,804 posts, read 674,424 times
Reputation: 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Typically societies(even animal societies) have them. Naturally the strongest/smartest hast a following. For present time “strongest/smartest” is not a term id use though..
Take the typical group of 3 or 4 high school friends. One of them is usually going to be regarded as the group leader. Human nature.
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Old Today, 06:26 PM
 
5,003 posts, read 1,401,300 times
Reputation: 2942
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Why do you need a k̶e̶e̶p̶e̶r̶ leader?
Why did humans evolve as a social species instead of lone hunters?
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Old Today, 06:27 PM
 
7,605 posts, read 2,722,687 times
Reputation: 2988
I think neer do well is not an apt description. If a person was a leader then they would by definition not be a neer do well.
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Old Today, 06:28 PM
 
Location: SGV
25,361 posts, read 9,872,280 times
Reputation: 9855
Only a sociopath wants to lead an involuntary collective.

On a personal note, I don't want to be in charge of 80% of the decisions in my personal life and those results directly impact me. I doubt I'd fare much better under the tutelage of a guy in a suit downtown who I never met.

Just a hunch on my part.
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Old Today, 06:30 PM
 
Location: SGV
25,361 posts, read 9,872,280 times
Reputation: 9855
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
Why did humans evolve as a social species instead of lone hunters?
Voluntary association vs involuntary association.

Study. Learn. Test later.
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