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Old Today, 01:41 PM
 
52,460 posts, read 42,188,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I'll turn this around.

You've got video of her TWICE trying to escape him, and he comes and drags her back into the hotel room, both of them nude (she's got a bra on, I guess), you're going to ignore that, and instead, believe his verbiage?

When you can see with your own eyes that she's trying to leave and he won't let her?
Neither of us had the benefit of sitting and seeing all of the evidence and testimony.

Considering how quickly the deliberation went, this one wasn't even that hard of a decision.

I for one have some faith that the jurors know a whole lot more than you or I, you're the one basically stating they're wrong but then again, you don't have all the evidence...along with others postulating that the 9 women jurors were just too weak minded and acquitted the guy because his attorney was good looking or other lame reasons.

Takes a lot of hubris to reach such an unyielding opinion vs. TWELVE people that sat and heard testimony and evidence for hours and hours compared to what you read off the internet in 5 minutes.
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Old Today, 01:52 PM
 
10,782 posts, read 4,353,111 times
Reputation: 27180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Neither of us had the benefit of sitting and seeing all of the evidence and testimony.

Considering how quickly the deliberation went, this one wasn't even that hard of a decision.

I for one have some faith that the jurors know a whole lot more than you or I, you're the one basically stating they're wrong but then again, you don't have all the evidence...along with others postulating that the 9 women jurors were just too weak minded and acquitted the guy because his attorney was good looking or other lame reasons.

Takes a lot of hubris to reach such an unyielding opinion vs. TWELVE people that sat and heard testimony and evidence for hours and hours compared to what you read off the internet in 5 minutes.
Remember the Rodney King beating video tape? The question put before jurors was, was for in excess of what was necessary used to arrest him.

Just as in that case, I don't need to know what happened before and after.

I can see it with my own eyes.

I could see that in the Rodney King tape, force in excess of what was necessary was used to arrest him.

And I can watch these videos, and see a young woman trying to get away from a naked man and he keeps dragging her back into the hotel room against her clear wishes.
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Old Today, 01:58 PM
 
9,613 posts, read 5,876,277 times
Reputation: 9753
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Remember the Rodney King beating video tape? The question put before jurors was, was for in excess of what was necessary used to arrest him.

Just as in that case, I don't need to know what happened before and after.

I can see it with my own eyes.

I could see that in the Rodney King tape, force in excess of what was necessary was used to arrest him.

And I can watch these videos, and see a young woman trying to get away from a naked man and he keeps dragging her back into the hotel room against her clear wishes.
Yes to all of the above and the witness testimony that she was crying and pleading for help adds to the evidence and discounts his story that Cleaves was “just trying to protect” the naked woman he was dragging back to his room. If he was trying to protect her perhaps he would have said something to the woman who said she was going to call 911. Maybe something along the lines of, “Please do, this woman needs help”. Instead he just dragged her back to his hotel room.
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Old Today, 02:02 PM
 
13,097 posts, read 4,027,835 times
Reputation: 3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
Remember the Rodney King beating video tape? The question put before jurors was, was for in excess of what was necessary used to arrest him.

Just as in that case, I don't need to know what happened before and after.

I can see it with my own eyes.

I could see that in the Rodney King tape, force in excess of what was necessary was used to arrest him.

And I can watch these videos, and see a young woman trying to get away from a naked man and he keeps dragging her back into the hotel room against her clear wishes.
It strains all credibility that whatever happened before or after the video was consensual, let alone what happened during the video.
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Old Today, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,796 posts, read 11,760,714 times
Reputation: 9261
It also strains all credibility to think nine female jurors would quickly acquit unless there is a lot we don’t know.
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Old Today, 02:14 PM
 
13,097 posts, read 4,027,835 times
Reputation: 3930
I want to know the race of the 9 female jurors for starters.
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Old Today, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,796 posts, read 11,760,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I want to know the race of the 9 female jurors for starters.
Why am I not surprised?

M Cathy Dowd the judge who dismissed the case in 2016 was an old white woman.
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Old Today, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,389 posts, read 10,320,893 times
Reputation: 20569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Neither of us had the benefit of sitting and seeing all of the evidence and testimony.

Considering how quickly the deliberation went, this one wasn't even that hard of a decision.

I for one have some faith that the jurors know a whole lot more than you or I, you're the one basically stating they're wrong but then again, you don't have all the evidence...along with others postulating that the 9 women jurors were just too weak minded and acquitted the guy because his attorney was good looking or other lame reasons.

Takes a lot of hubris to reach such an unyielding opinion vs. TWELVE people that sat and heard testimony and evidence for hours and hours compared to what you read off the internet in 5 minutes.
This is actually something I learned from those who conduct mock jury trials - which are often done prior to the real trial. So, no, not a lame reason at all.
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Old Today, 02:21 PM
 
10,782 posts, read 4,353,111 times
Reputation: 27180
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Yes to all of the above and the witness testimony that she was crying and pleading for help adds to the evidence and discounts his story that Cleaves was “just trying to protect” the naked woman he was dragging back to his room. If he was trying to protect her perhaps he would have said something to the woman who said she was going to call 911. Maybe something along the lines of, “Please do, this woman needs help”. Instead he just dragged her back to his hotel room.
And then there's the fact that after 13 minutes, he had not, in fact, clothed her.
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Old Today, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,796 posts, read 11,760,714 times
Reputation: 9261
A jury of 12 quickly acquitted a case that had been dismissed by an old white woman judge previously but, hey, we got people on here that just know he is guilty based on a video that the aforementioned judge and jury saw.
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