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Old Today, 10:35 AM
 
13,116 posts, read 4,032,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
No. Someone running into the street, and grabbed by another person and pulled to safety would not be the same thing.

Had this running away happened ONCE, and the next time you see this couple they're dressed and headed to his car or an UBER is on the way, that's one thing.

It happened twice. He was still completely naked.

(honestly, do you not wonder about that?)
The video leaves no reasonable doubt that she was trying to escape a non-consensual sexual encounter. I'm not buying that any woman, intoxicated or not, runs out of a room naked away from a man because she's "crazy". It just doesn't happen. Women run away naked from a man to avoid a man who is violating her consent.
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Old Today, 10:47 AM
 
52,477 posts, read 42,196,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I AM trying to get more information, and have asked a few times, and others have agreed there isn't really a lot more details to explain the jury decision.

Whether it comes across as sincere here, I guess that's up to everyone's interpretation.

I am completely open to saying the jury was correct, she consented to sexual activity. I just have no information as to why they did that, in the fact of this very concerning video.

I DON'T need to know what went on in the hotel room to know - for absolute sure - she was trying to get away from him, and he was dragging her back against her will. THAT much is absolutely clear - he's at least guilty of kidnapping and holding her hostage against her will. And that's what I mean, I don't need further information to know that for sure.

About whether the sexual interaction was consensual, I don't have the information - and it appears no one else here can find it either - that made the jury convinced he was innocent.

He was NOT innocent of kidnapping and illegally detaining her.

(maybe some of the confusion comes from the fact that I am truly seeking new information, and have no trouble acknowledging new information and changing my mind in cases like this.)
I'd hope that everyone here can agree that the jury did not find him innocent.
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Old Today, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,804 posts, read 11,763,939 times
Reputation: 9262
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
More like we can't have a black sports celebrity man going to jail for raping a white woman.
More like we can’t accept 12 jurors, a cop and a judge all saw no case here.
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Old Today, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,804 posts, read 11,763,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
I'd hope that everyone here can agree that the jury did not find him innocent.
That’s not a jury’s job.
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Old Today, 11:03 AM
 
52,477 posts, read 42,196,618 times
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A couple points for people to consider.

1) He was not charged with kidnapping. The prosecutor didn't even file that charge.

2) For educational purposes, here is what was likely used to avoid the charge of unlawful imprisonment,
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclope...y-defense.html

To balance it out we have the video of her walking into the hotel room with him but we have the one where she's running away naked. She told the police when they came to the hotel room that she was fine (and if you read around will find the police describing her as beligerant towards the police). In the morning, she said she'd been raped.

She may very well win a civil suit but the law for criminal convictions says "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" which does not mean "innocent".
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Old Today, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Houston
22,804 posts, read 11,763,939 times
Reputation: 9262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I AM trying to get more information, and have asked a few times, and others have agreed there isn't really a lot more details to explain the jury decision.

Whether it comes across as sincere here, I guess that's up to everyone's interpretation.

I am completely open to saying the jury was correct, she consented to sexual activity. I just have no information as to why they did that, in the fact of this very concerning video.

I DON'T need to know what went on in the hotel room to know - for absolute sure - she was trying to get away from him, and he was dragging her back against her will. THAT much is absolutely clear - he's at least guilty of kidnapping and holding her hostage against her will. And that's what I mean, I don't need further information to know that for sure.

About whether the sexual interaction was consensual, I don't have the information - and it appears no one else here can find it either - that made the jury convinced he was innocent.

He was NOT innocent of kidnapping and illegally detaining her.

(maybe some of the confusion comes from the fact that I am truly seeking new information, and have no trouble acknowledging new information and changing my mind in cases like this.)
On multiple occasions I have used necessary force to prevent a drunken fool from leaving a house. My own brother on two occasions. A drunk woman running around in only her bra might not be safe on the streets.
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Old Today, 11:05 AM
 
52,477 posts, read 42,196,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
That’s not a jury’s job.
Correct, we agree.
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Old Today, 11:09 AM
 
2,777 posts, read 757,751 times
Reputation: 7201
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
The video leaves no reasonable doubt that she was trying to escape a non-consensual sexual encounter. I'm not buying that any woman, intoxicated or not, runs out of a room naked away from a man because she's "crazy". It just doesn't happen. Women run away naked from a man to avoid a man who is violating her consent.

But how did she get naked in the first place? I'm not saying a woman who removes her clothes should be raped. But they aren't 13 year olds either, daring each other to remove their clothing and see how far they can go without going all the way. If she only wanted to kiss or didn't even want that, why did she remove her clothes?
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Old Today, 11:17 AM
 
13,116 posts, read 4,032,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
On multiple occasions I have used necessary force to prevent a drunken fool from leaving a house. My own brother on two occasions. A drunk woman running around in only her bra might not be safe on the streets.
Yeah but she's not his brother and I bet your brother wasn't leaving the house naked because someone was trying to have sex with him.
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Old Today, 11:22 AM
 
13,116 posts, read 4,032,749 times
Reputation: 3934
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzcat22 View Post
But how did she get naked in the first place? I'm not saying a woman who removes her clothes should be raped. But they aren't 13 year olds either, daring each other to remove their clothing and see how far they can go without going all the way. If she only wanted to kiss or didn't even want that, why did she remove her clothes?
Do we know for fact how she ended up undressed? I don't know but I would guess she might've been blacking out and he undressed her.
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