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Old Today, 04:23 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
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This is just one piece of evidence, of which I'm sure there are many others.

This video, in itself, doesn't show or prove rape. That's one.

The video, while difficult to watch, shows a naked man dragging (not overly violently) a semi-nude women back to a motel room after the semi-nude woman casually walked out of the room.

I don't know what the other evidence was at the trial, but this can easily be spun in more than one way. I trust the jury on this one, sorry.

Perhaps the video shows kidnapping (there are defenses to that, too . . . again, I don't know what the other evidence is), but its a stretch to say that it is proof of sexual assault.
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Old Today, 04:27 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
Reputation: 12134
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
From that report:

Quote:
The jury of nine women and three men began deliberations just after 1:45 p.m. Tuesday and delivered its verdicts less a little more than two hours later.

Juror Michael Lambert said the verdict was swift because he and others on the panel didn't believe Cleaves' accuser. "Her testimony was consistent lies," Lambert said, adding that jurors thought the woman forgot key parts of her story too often.
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Old Today, 04:29 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC View Post
I really don't see how whatever her statements were is relevant here. We see what we see.

Whether she initially was embarrassed that she went to a man's hotel room, whether she initially consented to sex, whether she was in fact too drunk to clearly remember all the details, we have video.

Of him chasing her, and dragging her against his will back to his room yelling to a witness for help. TWICE.

To me, that trumps everything else. We SEE what he does, and she's trying her best to get away.

The fact that there were 9 women on the jury isn't a point for justice. Many women will throw other women under the bus same as look at them. She might have gotten a fairer shake if the jury was made up of fathers of young women her age.
But what do you see?

Because you clearly don't see a sexual assault on that video. Not the same video that I watched.

Listen, while distressing to watch regardless of whether a rape took place or not (and a jury determined that one didn't take place), the video does not show a sexual assault, so that point is not "clear" from the tape. I'm curious to know what exactly the jurors didn't believe
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Old Today, 04:32 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lottamoxie View Post
The jury was told the tale that he was just trying to "protect her" because she ran out of the room naked...I'm sure there was more to that fictional tale, but that was his claim.
And that is something to weigh. Ultimately, the jury had to believe one of them and chose to believe Cleaves (or to disbelieve the accuser), in part because the found the accuser to be untrustworthy. At the end of the day, the video does not show that a rape happened, no matter how many want to spread that narrative.
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Old Today, 04:33 PM
 
Location: Austin
12,407 posts, read 7,063,950 times
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How can anyone determine what happened between these two people from that few second clip? the jury saw this clip, heard the evidence, and made their judgement.

armchair, internet jurors, please stop disrespecting our judicial system. quit it!
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Old Today, 04:34 PM
 
13,856 posts, read 7,552,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
From that report:
Yes, I read that earlier. The alleged victim was inebriated. Can you explain the witness who testified the young woman asked “help me”? The woman who called the cops.
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Old Today, 04:35 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan2yankee View Post
How can anyone determine what happened from that few second clip? the jury saw this clip and heard the evidence.

arm chair jurors, please stop disrespecting our judicial system. quit it!
Exactly my point. That video doesn't show a rape or sexual assault. The video shows a naked man dragging (and not overly aggressively or violently even) a semi-nude woman who casually walked out of the motel room back into the motel room. This can easily be viewed in a number of ways. The jury decided to believe Mateen and not believe his accuser; they found the accuser to be untrustworthy apparently due to changing stories, etc.
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Old Today, 04:37 PM
 
Location: Texas
10,134 posts, read 3,886,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
But what do you see?

Because you clearly don't see a sexual assault on that video. Not the same video that I watched.

Listen, while distressing to watch regardless of whether a rape took place or not (and a jury determined that one didn't take place), the video does not show a sexual assault, so that point is not "clear" from the tape. I'm curious to know what exactly the jurors didn't believe
She was trying to get away from him, so it's obvious their involvement was not consensual. Do you think that once he got her in the hotel room, she all of a sudden became friendly and cooperative?
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Old Today, 04:38 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
Reputation: 12134
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowne View Post
Yes, I read that earlier. The alleged victim was inebriated. Can you explain the witness who testified the young woman asked “help me”? The woman who called the cops.
I can't explain it. Perhaps after having consensual sex Mateen made an inappropriate joke about the woman's body and she stormed out in protest? I don't know. But then again I don't have all of the evidence. I think it was clear from the video that the woman didn't want to be in the room with Mateen. But, again, that doesn't prove rape or sexual assault.
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Old Today, 04:40 PM
Status: "Proud American, Always and Forever" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: DMV Area/NYC/Honolulu
12,559 posts, read 6,538,174 times
Reputation: 12134
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
She was trying to get away from him, so it's obvious their involvement was not consensual. Do you think that once he got her in the hotel room, she all of a sudden became friendly and cooperative?
Her involvement at what point, though? Its clear that the woman didn't want to go back into the room. But, again, that doesn't prove that a rape or sexual assault took place. It is known for people to have consensual sex and for one party to be upset/pissed off afterward based on something said/a text message read/etc. I don't know what all that happened. What I do know is that the jury decided to not believe the accuser and that the video does not show sexual assault.
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