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Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
 
7,613 posts, read 4,372,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Uh, we precipitously exited Iraq in 2010 under Obama. If you were not aware of that, you should go do some reading before posting.
And that ended all conflict we were engaged in.

There certainly wasn’t a spike in things like armed drones or anything. No other hotspots we engaged that certainly were no direct threat to us.
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Old Yesterday, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,723 posts, read 14,208,139 times
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Yet another premptive strike by Israel. LOL


They shouldn't complain if and when Iran responds.


I recall Iran helping us to fight ISIS, no good deed goes unpunished.
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Old Yesterday, 03:59 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,834 posts, read 681,975 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
And that ended all conflict we were engaged in.

There certainly wasn’t a spike in things like armed drones or anything. No other hotspots we engaged that certainly were no direct threat to us.
You're moving the goalposts. You said that the MIC was running things, but you can't explain why then the decision-making changed so starkly from one admin to the next.

Clearly W Bush would not have pulled out. Robert Gates who was SecDef under both Bush and Obama, argued stridently against withdrawal in 2010 (so did Leon Panetta) but they lost the argument to the President.
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Old Yesterday, 04:11 PM
 
7,613 posts, read 4,372,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
You're moving the goalposts. You said that the MIC was running things, but you can't explain why then the decision-making changed so starkly from one admin to the next.

Clearly W Bush would not have pulled out. Robert Gates who was SecDef under both Bush and Obama, argued stridently against withdrawal in 2010 (so did Leon Panetta) but they lost the argument to the President.
What in the world are you talking about.

Bush signed the agreement that set our withdrawal from Iraq.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S....rces_Agreement

The people eventually no longer tolerate it. But there will always be something going on to keep those “Defense” dollars spending.

Representatives secure pork barrel spending on Defense, which gives constituents jobs, which demands more Defense spending to continue, which has people question why we spend so much on Defense without credible threats, so we invent a Boogeyman of the month to shoot at. In the name of welfare essentially.

Last edited by notnamed; Yesterday at 04:38 PM..
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Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,834 posts, read 681,975 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnamed View Post
What in the world are you talking about.

Bush signed the agreement that set our withdrawal from Iraq.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S....rces_Agreement

The people eventually no longer tolerate it. But there will always be something going on to keep those “Defense” dollars spending.

Representatives secure pork barrel spending on Defense, which gives constituents jobs, which demands more Defense spending to continue, which has people question why we spend so much on Defense without credible threats, so we invent a Boogeyman of the month to shoot at. In the name of welfare essentially.
Bush signed it under pressure from elements within Iraq. Gates said that there were many Iraqi leaders who were against withdrawal, but none willing to say so publicly. But Gates also thought that the agreement could have been re-worked to avoid precipitous withdrawal when the time actually arrived.


That's 'what in the world' I'm talking about. Again, two different admins, two starkly different approaches, contrary to your theory that the MIC runs everything.
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Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
 
7,613 posts, read 4,372,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Bush signed it under pressure from elements within Iraq. Gates said that there were many Iraqi leaders who were against withdrawal, but none willing to say so publicly. But Gates also thought that the agreement could have been re-worked to avoid precipitous withdrawal when the time actually arrived.


That's 'what in the world' I'm talking about. Again, two different admins, two starkly different approaches, contrary to your theory that the MIC runs everything.
Bush signed an agreement saying we would be out by Dec 2011. Bush started pulling out troops in his term.
Obama got us out as of Dec 2011.

That is starkly different, how exactly?

Iraqis were asserting their sovereignty and wanted us out. Bush started it, Obama finished it.
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Old Yesterday, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Long Island
33,723 posts, read 14,208,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Bush signed it under pressure from elements within Iraq. Gates said that there were many Iraqi leaders who were against withdrawal, but none willing to say so publicly. But Gates also thought that the agreement could have been re-worked to avoid precipitous withdrawal when the time actually arrived.


That's 'what in the world' I'm talking about. Again, two different admins, two starkly different approaches, contrary to your theory that the MIC runs everything.
Yes of course Bush singed the agreement, they didn't want us there anymore and he didn't want to leave the next president with this mess without a conclusion. Gates had input on the agreement, we wanted to be out of there after 8 years of war. If there were in fact Iraqi leaders against our withdrawal they could have stated their disagreement publicly. Our military leaders in Iraq indicated they were trained and ready to take over, I never heard Gates state that they were not ready to take responsibility.
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Old Yesterday, 06:55 PM
Status: "but it depends on what the definition of "is" is." (set 26 days ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
3,834 posts, read 681,975 times
Reputation: 1251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Yes of course Bush singed the agreement, they didn't want us there anymore and he didn't want to leave the next president with this mess without a conclusion. Gates had input on the agreement, we wanted to be out of there after 8 years of war. If there were in fact Iraqi leaders against our withdrawal they could have stated their disagreement publicly. Our military leaders in Iraq indicated they were trained and ready to take over, I never heard Gates state that they were not ready to take responsibility.
It's in his memoir Duty. Both he and Panetta were pushing hard to slow down withdrawal. He says there were many Iraqi leaders who wanted that too, but none were willing to say it publicly.
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Old Yesterday, 07:00 PM
 
30,414 posts, read 15,771,245 times
Reputation: 20412
We need to be nationalists and stay out of it.

I know the internationalists prefer we keep getting involved.
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Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
 
Location: the Sticks
9,187 posts, read 2,606,677 times
Reputation: 4863
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
Uh, we precipitously exited Iraq in 2010 under Obama. If you were not aware of that, you should go do some reading before posting.
Revisionist history? We were told to leave by the Iraqi government because Hillary failed to seal the deal. We didn't leave because Obama decided that we were finished with Iraq. The resulting Chaos, it can be argued is what gave ISIS the ability to grow as strong as they did on Obama's watch.
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