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Old 08-24-2019, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,221 posts, read 988,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
It's just another aggravating factor in sentencing.



It's also not simply, "how one feels about their victim." It's whether the crime itself is motivated by an immutable characteristic of the victim. Was someone targeted specifically because of their race, sex, sexuality, etc.?


Would the crime have happened but-for that bias motivation?






Imagine if you will the plight of white S. African farmers, targeted on account of their race. Not that the racist S. African government ever would, but the government there has a motivation to apply aggravating factors to such crimes where it shows a special need to address such crimes.
So, you are For criminalizing emotion?
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:34 PM
 
Location: SGV
25,520 posts, read 9,915,100 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
Nonsensical. Motive/state of mind (mens rea) is a staple of criminal jurisprudence in the common law tradition.



So all murder should be prosecuted the same? 1st degree vs. manslaughter?
Mens rea has been bastardized by the State.

There should be no State prosecutions of crimes. If so, it would have to start with itself if we're being consistent here.

Just because it says so in the State's books doesn't mean it's moral or logical.
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Old 08-24-2019, 07:45 PM
 
399 posts, read 59,811 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
So, you are For criminalizing emotion?



No. And emotion is not criminalized. The ACT the emotion created is criminalized. The MOTIVATION is an aggravating factor for the purpose of sentencing.


I don't believe in thought crime, speech codes, and am an almost free-speech absolutist.So indeed, even if someone was beating a white man screaming, "**** you cracker," that doesn't necessarily mean it was a hate crime. But the speech CAN BE evidence of motivation as a hate crime.


Again, it's not much different than how we look at someone killing in "hot blood" vs. "cold blood" is really a calculation of emotion for motivation, which leads to different sentencing outcomes. And most have no problem with that when doling out punishment.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,221 posts, read 988,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHenriques1147 View Post
No. And emotion is not criminalized. The ACT the emotion created is criminalized. The MOTIVATION is an aggravating factor for the purpose of sentencing.


I don't believe in thought crime, speech codes, and am an almost free-speech absolutist.So indeed, even if someone was beating a white man screaming, "**** you cracker," that doesn't necessarily mean it was a hate crime. But the speech CAN BE evidence of motivation as a hate crime.


Again, it's not much different than how we look at someone killing in "hot blood" vs. "cold blood" is really a calculation of emotion for motivation, which leads to different sentencing outcomes. And most have no problem with that when doling out punishment.
You said, "The MOTIVATION is an aggravating factor for the purpose of sentencing. ".
Meaning, if the crime is deamed a "hate" crime, (hate being an emotion) then sentencing would be harsher.
That is quite literally criminalizing emotion, with the caveat that the emotion will be prosecuted only after a crime.

It is very different from from the established "degrees" of homicide. Having an emotional disposition in no way equals the difference between premeditated murder and lesser degrees. Those hierarchies can stand on their own as discerning aspects, even in cases of "hate" driven crime.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:29 AM
 
4,943 posts, read 1,305,361 times
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Aggravating factor that won't result in any more time or they will serve a concurrent sentence. Whoop-dee-doo. Waste of effort, time and money but it makes people feel good I guess.
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Old 08-25-2019, 01:52 AM
 
Location: Micronesia
3,221 posts, read 988,219 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
You said, "The MOTIVATION is an aggravating factor for the purpose of sentencing. ".
Meaning, if the crime is deamed a "hate" crime, (hate being an emotion) then sentencing would be harsher.
That is quite literally criminalizing emotion, with the caveat that the emotion will be prosecuted only after a crime.

It is very different from from the established "degrees" of homicide. Having an emotional disposition in no way equals the difference between premeditated murder and lesser degrees. Those hierarchies can stand on their own as discerning aspects, even in cases of "hate" driven crime.
deemed*
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:10 AM
 
12,535 posts, read 3,395,864 times
Reputation: 4219
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
confederate flags are not that rare around Ohio, North of Columbus Ohio to boot. If it is not you, somebody else spends time and treasure to reflect on that old war in the ways not sympathetic to the northern cause.
Interesting.

The only place in Ohio where I have seen any Confederate flags is near Zanesville, which is well east of Columbus.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,446 posts, read 10,342,613 times
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This would not make the front page in Chicago. It might not even make the news.
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Old 08-25-2019, 07:58 PM
 
11,975 posts, read 2,963,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Are you sure it was not NYC cops giving him those hate lessons ?
Who was giving hate lessons to people attacking NYC cops?
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY 🇺🇸
36,374 posts, read 10,790,944 times
Reputation: 34525
Quote:
Originally Posted by StrawberrySoup View Post
I think the crime should be the thing, not the reason.
I agree with you. But as long as "hate crimes" are on the books, they should be applied equally.

However, this violent racist also appears to be mentally ill.
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