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Old 08-24-2019, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,772 posts, read 2,084,950 times
Reputation: 1733

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
He is doing something about it. He is placing tariffs on the goods made in China, until other countries, including our own, have a chance to compete. To be fair, Obama did the same thing, but he targeted mostly steel. We were never buying much steel from China. Only about 20% was coming from China. Trump had the guts to place tariffs on the finished goods. That woke the commies up almost instantly. Trump is not playing around with them the way scared Obama was.

Trump has done more to change where things are being made than pretty much any president besides Clinton when he signed NAFTA, and when China was designated as our primary trading partner.


Mind you, we hear an abundant amount of belly aching from the left because Trump is making a difference and standing up to China and their unfair trade practices. Lefties wanted someone to do what Trump is doing, but they desperately wanted that someone to be a leftist like them.
Except for the fact that tariffs are a leftist economic principle. It's a government-managed and centrally-planned economy, and very little different from Cuba or the Eastern Bloc.

It is not the place or duty of the government to pick sides or play favorites in the market. Any--ANY interference in the free market is patently unacceptable. It is yet another example of why capitalism cannot exist within the confines of a State.

When MAGAs use the term “we,” it implies that these industries are nationalized, instead of privately owned businesses run by individuals and funded/patronized by individuals. Every individual has the inherent natural right to voluntarily trade with whomever they wish, without the say so or approval of the State.

Import taxes are theft of profits and are a tax on consumers. And as you are aware, all taxation is theft.

https://mises.org/wire/tariffs-steal...eneurs-profits

https://mises.org/wire/how-look-tariffs-1
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,171 posts, read 3,101,637 times
Reputation: 7747
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Leftists have taught young and impressionable minds that manufacturing jobs are bad. Instead, leftists suggest we should have an economy built on trading hamburgers and health insurance policies to one another. Almost like they said "hold my doobie, I got this! and started randomly destroying once strong and prominent industries in the USA.
What a complete bunch of you-know-what.

The absolute number of manufacturing jobs in the US peaked all the way back in 1979. Since then we've had as many republican administrations as democratic ones, and you blame the leftists for that??

If that weren't enough, manufacturing as a percentage of GDP has been declining since the end of WWII (if not longer). You blame the leftists for all that?

The only reason manufacturing has "declined" in the US is because of - gasp! - free enterprise. The US has become too expensive to do a lot of manufacturing, so it goes elsewhere. What is "liberal" about that?
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:08 PM
 
8,114 posts, read 2,870,045 times
Reputation: 3195
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
I would rather do business with countries that are not working to undermine the USA's best interests. Buying products made by slaves in a communist country is not part of the USA's best interest, nor do I consider it virtuous or right. Trump is making major changes that are driving business away from the commies, and towards freer countries. I support that 100%


And once again, the products shown by the OP are not Trump's products. He has no right to tell the business where they must get the work done. He is putting tarrifs/taxes in place that will encourage USA businesses to go somewhere besides China, but he is not a dictator.
1. VietNam is communist so not much different then China. Maybe you did not study history but China backed the winning side in the VietNam war.

2. Taiwan will probably end up as part of China.

3. Bangladesh is in debt to China so will probably be part of iyts domain.

So as you can easily see its a whack-a-mole game. Any other questions?
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:09 PM
 
11,354 posts, read 11,219,343 times
Reputation: 5648
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicano3000X View Post
Parody had become reality..
Waiting for the trump apologists on this forum to excuse it, just like they excuse trump hiring illegals
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:09 PM
 
Location: Middle of the ocean
32,936 posts, read 20,834,706 times
Reputation: 47617
Let's remember that manufacturing has gone up by 30% with half the amount of people due to automation, or numbers somewhere around there.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
13,102 posts, read 14,310,500 times
Reputation: 13952
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebeldor View Post
Except for the fact that tariffs are a leftist economic principle. It's a government-managed and centrally-planned economy, and very little different from Cuba or the Eastern Bloc.

It is not the place or duty of the government to pick sides or play favorites in the market. Any--ANY interference in the free market is patently unacceptable. It is yet another example of why capitalism cannot exist within the confines of a State.

When MAGAs use the term “we,” it implies that these industries are nationalized, instead of privately owned businesses run by individuals and funded/patronized by individuals. Every individual has the inherent natural right to voluntarily trade with whomever they wish, without the say so or approval of the State.

Import taxes are theft of profits and are a tax on consumers. And as you are aware, all taxation is theft.

https://mises.org/wire/tariffs-steal...eneurs-profits

https://mises.org/wire/how-look-tariffs-1

Logical fail. Tariffs can exist in a capitalist market, just like any other tax. We have the right to defend our domestic industries, the way other countries do. Nobody anywhere is talking about nationalizing US businesses either.


You seem to equate any government action at all to communism, or somehow a violation of capitalism. And so far, it seems you have failed to convince anyone on this forum of the virtues of your run away imagination.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,171 posts, read 3,101,637 times
Reputation: 7747
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
Logical fail. Tariffs can exist in a capitalist market. We have the right to defend our domestic industries, the way other countries do. Nobody anywhere is talking about nationalizing US businesses either.
Except ... tariffs don't protect domestic industries. As often as they "protect" some domestic industry, they harm another domestic industry.

If tariffs were protecting domestic industries, domestic manufacturers like GM, Ford, Intel, etc would all be cheering Trump's tariffs.

But they aren't. Instead they're lambasting them. Why?

Because even many domestic industries import goods from other nations as inputs to the products they make here. Tariffs raise those costs.

Also, if tariffs were such a boon to industry, the economy would have boomed after the Smoot-Hawley tariffs took effect. You might want to read the history of that one.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:18 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
13,102 posts, read 14,310,500 times
Reputation: 13952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikala43 View Post
Let's remember that manufacturing has gone up by 30% with half the amount of people due to automation, or numbers somewhere around there.

In what time frame? We know well that USA manufacturing has been more productive, with fewer American workers. We get the components from China, or other nations, to go into the products that we do make here. This allows US manufactures to cut jobs overall, as well as hold wages down since there is far less upward pressure on wages.


All of this is great for the corporations assembling the widgets together. Not necessarily good for ordinary everyday workers. I think we are better off making more of those components in the USA, allowing more American workers to enjoy the benefits of a fair days pay for a fair days work.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
13,102 posts, read 14,310,500 times
Reputation: 13952
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Bond 007 View Post
Except ... tariffs don't protect domestic industries. As often as they "protect" some domestic industry, they harm another domestic industry.

If tariffs were protecting domestic industries, domestic manufacturers like GM, Ford, Intel, etc would all be cheering Trump's tariffs.

But they aren't. Instead they're lambasting them. Why?

Because even many domestic industries import goods from other nations as inputs to the products they make here. Tariffs raise those costs.

Also, if tariffs were such a boon to industry, the economy would have boomed after the Smoot-Hawley tariffs took effect. You might want to read the history of that one.

So why did Obama place a 500% tariff on Chinese steel? Who was he trying to hurt?

Smoot-Hawley was not the reason Americans bet everything on the stock market, then took out debt so they could bet more, right before the crash. It was not the reason why Americans were so over leveraged in debt in the first place. There were many good reasons why the great depression occurred. Smoot-Hawley certainly didn't create the dust bowl either.

Tariffs are a tool used by pretty much every other nation we trade with. Obviously they see a use for them. We have every right to do the same, and we should be. If we can't have an equal playing field, than it's time to play a different game, or at least change the rules.
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Old 08-24-2019, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Kansas City, MISSOURI
10,171 posts, read 3,101,637 times
Reputation: 7747
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
In what time frame? We know well that USA manufacturing has been more productive, with fewer American workers. We get the components from China, or other nations, to go into the products that we do make here. This allows US manufactures to cut jobs overall, as well as hold wages down since there is far less upward pressure on wages.


All of this is great for the corporations assembling the widgets together. Not necessarily good for ordinary everyday workers. I think we are better off making more of those components in the USA, allowing more American workers to enjoy the benefits of a fair days pay for a fair days work.
rebeldor is right: you are advocating a centrally planned economy.

Industries don't exist for the sake of employing persons. That was exactly what the communists thought, and tried.

Industries exist for the sake of providing goods and services to customers. You want them to employ as many people as possible just for the sake of employing as many people as possible.

What you will end up with if you try that is an economy that looks something like the Soviet Union.
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