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Old Today, 06:14 AM
 
3,944 posts, read 777,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Exactly which of the white nationalists chanting "Jews will not replace us" were there to save the statue of Robert E. Lee from being moved?
NO, not them. They are the ones Trump specifically condemned. But there were others there for the purpose of saving the statue, and they were NOT chanting that.

HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU LIBS HAVE TO BE TOLD THAT??

 
Old Today, 06:31 AM
 
5,879 posts, read 1,590,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
Let's be more precise. Trump said that white supremacist group included "very fine people." He did not use the word "Nazi" and he did not apply it to all Alt-Right people. But he clearly claimed a false equivalency between the two sides, and clearly felt that it was possible to be a hate-mongering neo-Nazi and still be a "fine person."
He said that there were fine people on both sides. There are some fine people who do not wish to see monuments taken down and I suppose there are probably some fine people in the group who wants to see them taken down. He was obviously not referring to white supremacists nor was he speaking of the Antifa-like crowd.

This is a perfect example of how the media either knowingly or unknowingly perpetuates lies and dishonesty.
 
Old Today, 06:35 AM
 
38,944 posts, read 15,283,229 times
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Got to wonder what's behind all this affection for a statue commemorating a traitor.

Taking up arms against the nation you have sworn allegiance to is the very definition of treason.
 
Old Today, 06:44 AM
 
38,944 posts, read 15,283,229 times
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Word to the wise:

If you are a "good person" and inadvertently find yourself marching with those carrying torches, waving swastika flags, chanting Nazi slogans, and attacking people, best to revaluate your reasons for being there.

Just saying.
 
Old Today, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,274 posts, read 2,848,170 times
Reputation: 4484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
Let's be more precise. Trump said that white supremacist group included "very fine people." He did not use the word "Nazi" and he did not apply it to all Alt-Right people. But he clearly claimed a false equivalency between the two sides, and clearly felt that it was possible to be a hate-mongering neo-Nazi and still be a "fine person."



Is it your assertion that everyone who was in Charlottesville in support of keeping the statues was a "white supremacist"?

If yes, how do you know that? Do you think everyone who supports the statues must by definition be a Nazi/white supremacist?

If no.....then you must admit that there were some "good people" on both sides....as Trump said.


You can't have it both ways.
 
Old Today, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,274 posts, read 2,848,170 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
This is where YOU are misinformed.

The majority of the protest were the white supremacist groups and , in fact the whole protest was organized by white supremacist groups - and sold as a love of statues.......so some fine people showed up.

It may be Trump meant to recognize the few people who are so naive they chose to join in the protest thinking they were saving statues , when they were most definitely naive to the actual mission of the group that organized it

When given a chance to correct, back down from the implication that the white supremacist groups were 'fine people', Trump refused.

The optics were horrible.

A good leader, President, would be able in that case to declare his concern for all parties that were victims of violence, support the love of a statue, and condemn white supremacists. He couldn't do it because he was afraid to lose the alt. right.


And you know this.......how exactly?
 
Old Today, 07:33 AM
 
7,147 posts, read 1,546,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
Let's be more precise. Trump said that white supremacist group included "very fine people." He did not use the word "Nazi" and he did not apply it to all Alt-Right people. But he clearly claimed a false equivalency between the two sides, and clearly felt that it was possible to be a hate-mongering neo-Nazi and still be a "fine person."
Newflash: Many extreme liberals are just as hate-mongering as the most rabid KKK member. Also, one bad trait does not mean, imo, that someone is a bad person overall -- unless that person's "bad trait" leads to violence.

I am never, never, NEVER going to defend racists -- it is the No. 1 reason why I will not associate with someone because of political reasons -- but the fact is that there have been fine people who have been racists. For example, Atticus Finch was based almost entirely on Harper Lee's father. Conversely, there are many black preachers who are racists, but who care very much and do many fine things for their congregants. There are many conservatives who are fine people, and many liberals who are fine people. It is the extremists on both sides that I don't want to tolerate.

So, in my opinion, there IS an equivalency between the two sides.
 
Old Today, 07:34 AM
 
5,879 posts, read 1,590,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
Is it your assertion that everyone who was in Charlottesville in support of keeping the statues was a "white supremacist"?

If yes, how do you know that? Do you think everyone who supports the statues must by definition be a Nazi/white supremacist?

If no.....then you must admit that there were some "good people" on both sides....as Trump said.


You can't have it both ways.
That is absolutely this person's assertion because that is exactly the narrative the so-called MSM and the Democrats are pushing and they have done such a good job that the non-thinkers will, of course, swallow it hook, line and sinker without even thinking about it for themselves.
 
Old Today, 07:41 AM
 
23,892 posts, read 12,576,751 times
Reputation: 7635
It is one thing to try and spin what the President said about Charlottesville and the fact he didn't seem to be totally condemning the white supremacist groups there -- that can be subjective, perception, spin.....

BUT to debate the motive of the groups and the rally itself is just plain naive and ignorance....and very disturbing.

The chants, the groups who proudly displayed their emblems, etc......and proudly spoke about how this rally was about furthering THEIR Cause......white supremacy.

I get it -- tough when the guy you voted for mishandles the situation. I'm not one of those that believe Trump is purposely racist. He's old, he's lived in a very small bubble all his life -- rich white guy in NYC. He has no clue what is going on at the grass roots level. He's not a guy who is into reading, researching, etc.

He gets fed talking points from Fox News..

Trump was not strong enough in his comments regarding the white supremacists who used the removal of statues as an excuse for their violence, and racist rants.

He just didn't.

He didn't want to be perceived as too liberal....so he kind of said -- bad guys on both sides.

President Trump has never suggested that these white supremacist groups that have been charged numerous times for invoking violence, etc. should be domestic terrorists...but the anti-fa should be.

Do I believe he supports the white supremacist. No I don't think he has that strong of a value system to commit to that kind of hate and bigotry. But his ignorance of the seriousness of these groups and their intentions, his inability to initially just condemn them for their hate......instead tempering his criticism of suggesting some of them were fine people.....or implying that.....just wasn't appropriate.
 
Old Today, 07:44 AM
 
7,171 posts, read 2,600,884 times
Reputation: 3909
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
He was a proud and talented military general who happened to fight for the confederacy.
He's the greatest military commander our nation has ever produced. He just ended his career fighting for the losing side in our most awful war.

Back to topic - anyone who reads the entirety of Trump's comments on the Charlottesville thing can spot a leader trying to be neutral and asking if we can all just get along. If you want to find offense in his words, you can. If you want to find leadership, you can.

One of the worst versions of the straw man argument (which we see on this forum all the freaking time, sadly) is of the form: "so what you're really saying is..." or "so by that, what you really mean is..." and then that straw man gets repeated ad nauseum until nobody can even remember what was ACTUALLY SAID. That was always the case with the Charlottesville thing. Within seconds of his comments, someone on some mainstream media outlet said "what he really means is...." and that became what he said, and we've been screaming at that strawman ever since.

Kudos to someone I almost always disagree (travis t) with for the topic. Fine work.
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