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Old 08-26-2019, 08:42 AM
Status: "Time for 25" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Cone of Uncertainty
7,739 posts, read 4,609,699 times
Reputation: 9196

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Teachers should teach our kids their school subjects. The preaching should be left up to preachers and parents.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:00 AM
 
383 posts, read 73,365 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
Dude, worry not, public school teachers and/or administrators do not get to share their view of God with students in a public school setting. For pityís sake, in a large percentage of school systems teachers arenít even allowed to say the word Christmas. Additionally, they are more than free to share their view of secularism or the evils of religion. Your team won this one already.
This has not been my personal experience. My kids attend/attended public school in Texas, and teachers frequently discussed their faith, had crosses or bible verses displayed in the classroom and asked students what churches they attended.

There are multiple religious student groups on campus - Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Lightbringers, Prayer at the Pole - all of which have a faculty sponsor. Prayers are said before football games, band performances, plays.

We are an atheist family, and I wasn't crazy about this level of religiosity in a public school but I kept my mouth shut most of the time. I did contact the school when one teacher told my daughter she would be more likely to pass his class if she went to church and challenged the class to convert her.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:01 AM
 
30,481 posts, read 16,768,182 times
Reputation: 14130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
We all benefit from an educated populace. Pay up.
Let parents opt out of the state system, if its so good they can stay and voluntarily fund it. Why on earth would you be opposed to letting people spend their own money on what they feel are the best education choices for their own children?
Alternatively, imagine your own LGBTQRSTLMNOP schools, fully finded by engaged parents like yourself, and no worry about some christians mucking it up with bible verses condemning you. And they with their own schools and curriculums free from the meddling of sexual deviants. Win/win for all.
It appears that you are the one arguing for an uneducated populace here, not me. Did your govt education turn you into a luddite?
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:12 AM
 
7,231 posts, read 2,624,221 times
Reputation: 3951
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott_CA View Post
We all benefit from an educated populace. Pay up.
And if our schools educated people, you'd be at least a bit closer to a valid point, maybe.

But our schools don't educate, they indoctrinate. And we most certainly do not benefit from an indoctrinated populace.

If the education product is a value, people will pay voluntarily. That the State forces you to pay for that which is demonstrably substandard speaks to just how poor the quality and value are.

All education should be voluntary, same as any other form of association.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:22 AM
 
Location: SM
25,988 posts, read 10,027,050 times
Reputation: 10001
I'm a government school graduate.

Today I tied my own shoes.

Not bad for $12,000 per year (my district's price per pupil when I was in high school if memory serves).
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:58 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
3,949 posts, read 1,714,264 times
Reputation: 3703
Default Or what's a heaven for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And if our schools educated people, you'd be at least a bit closer to a valid point, maybe.

But our schools don't educate, they indoctrinate. And we most certainly do not benefit from an indoctrinated populace.

If the education product is a value, people will pay voluntarily. That the State forces you to pay for that which is demonstrably substandard speaks to just how poor the quality and value are.

All education should be voluntary, same as any other form of association.
Public schools do both - educate & indoctrinate. As long as the indoctrination is in what makes a good citizen - patriotism, community, tolerance, our political process, the Constitution, & so on - that's is a positive, & one of the things we're looking for from our public schools.

The State doesn't force you to pay, except where K-12 is funded through property taxes. But you can home school or enroll your children in private or parochial schools, if you want. Public school education is a plus to the economy of the state - a better workforce, literate people do better in our society. A win for the individual & for the local & state & national communities.

Education is not voluntary - it's essential for most people to advance in life, & hopefully to enjoy some of the good things in life - for themselves, their family, their community.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:01 AM
 
24,176 posts, read 12,682,390 times
Reputation: 7762
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And if our schools educated people, you'd be at least a bit closer to a valid point, maybe.

But our schools don't educate, they indoctrinate. And we most certainly do not benefit from an indoctrinated populace.

If the education product is a value, people will pay voluntarily. That the State forces you to pay for that which is demonstrably substandard speaks to just how poor the quality and value are.

All education should be voluntary, same as any other form of association.
Well the doctors, lawyers, engineers, that help you to do what you do on any given day would challenge your concept that schools don't educate.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Haiku
4,824 posts, read 2,775,793 times
Reputation: 7037
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
Morals are taught by your parents if you donít have morals then the blame is on them. Or you donít have a soul.
Think again. Morals are whatever is on the law books since that is the only thing that is enforceable. Anything else is just someone's private idea but has no effect on society. And what is this "soul" thing you speak of?
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Colorado
12,428 posts, read 7,580,450 times
Reputation: 22375
Either you allow any/all religions or anything that anyone wishes to call that, to have space and function in a school...or you allow none. And that's the point of contention that has many/most school districts feeling it might be better to simply have none. But another poster was correct in mentioning organizations such as the Fellowship of Christian Athletes. Because they existed in one high school I attended, and held morning prayers around the flag pole, another group led by some friends of mine, basically comprised of a bunch of edgy, rebellious little heathens seeing an opportunity to stir things up, successfully argued their right to hold pagan prayers on school grounds each morning, also. Thus also skipping the tedium of home-room class period every day.

Regarding LGBTQ+, again...either you allow space for all orientations, or none. But the easy solution to both of these concerns in many public schools I, and my sons, attended, was to allow for various things but to also make them voluntary, not mandatory. (I don't think that it's even mandatory to say the Pledge, it wasn't when I was in school in the 90s in Virginia.) Certainly the Fellowship for Christian Athletes isn't a mandatory program. I opted my son out of sex ed and taught him myself. My main reason was that he was already struggling with a lot of social anxiety and peer-related melodrama and I felt it unnecessary for him to have to sit in a room full of other teenagers discussing sex. Especially since I felt perfectly capable of educating him, and probably doing a better job. My thinking was only reinforced by the fact that I had the teacher of that class call me, and try to convince me to have him participate, by assuring me that it was an "abstinence only" class. Well I'm firmly against such things, and I told her that if anything I was even more certain that I wanted to teach him, since "abstinence only" rarely covers things like proper consent.
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Old 08-26-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,573 posts, read 16,946,341 times
Reputation: 22957
Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
No. Religion belongs a home or ones places of worship. Period I donít care what religion it is.
Absolutely. I don't want any teacher sharing their views on God or lack of God, whatever to my child.

IF you want to educate your child in religion ~ then I suggest parents get up and out of bed on Sunday morning and go to Sunday School and Church.

That is what I did and yeah, it WAS hard getting up every Sunday after also getting up early every other day of the week for sports, work, school - but we did it.
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