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Old Today, 05:36 AM
 
19,822 posts, read 12,453,666 times
Reputation: 10964

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
The Black Mesa and Lake Powell Railroad carried coal from the Kayenta Mine to the Navajo Power Plant near Page AZ- a distance of 78 miles. Both the mine and power plant have closed.


Now 100% of freight transportation in the USA is powered by pollution spewing internal combustion engines. The USA has no energy policy, no transportation policy and no industrial policy.


How can we ever tackle "global warming" when the essential movement of freight relies on fossil fuels?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL9UA_fJLsk


They still have electric commuter trains. The South Shore, which runs from South Bend to Chicago, faithfully carries commuters and drunks going to Notre Dame games still to this day.


I used to take it into Chicago all the time when I was in high school. Kind of a fun, cheap, historic ride.


PS- Don't worry- AGW is a hoax and electricity is powered by coal anyway, so you are really not contributing to "global warming".
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Old Today, 05:40 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
10,303 posts, read 8,217,414 times
Reputation: 4417
Im a railfan. Electric freight trains are a thing of the long past. Not sure of the exact numbers but IIRC diesel is cheaper overall over very long distances.

Maybe T310 the railroad engineer has actual numbers.
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Old Today, 06:11 AM
 
52,505 posts, read 42,204,330 times
Reputation: 32763
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Someone mind telling me the abridged version of why they would want to shut down an electric freight train service and go in favor of coal? The former type would seem to be more next gen and Earth-friendly than the latter.
I did a little reading and:

1) The diesel engines are extremely efficient so the relative amount of pollution is low vs. the hundred million cars and trucks on our roads. Basically train pollution is a tiny drop in the bucket. (See item #3 as well)

2) enormous cost to electrify train lines, especially if using any overhead power lines which limits freight height.

3) Lines powered by electricity that mostly comes from? Yep...coal and gas.

4) electrified train lines means people zapped and lots and lots of lawsuits which is a lot less of a problem in other parts of the world given as examples.

From what I read the main item is #2, it would cost a fortune to make all those changes and relative to the savings in terms of "less pollution" you'd be far better off taking that money and investing in more electric commuter lines in urban US corridors or using it for other energy dependent R&D etc. Heck, just look at the NYC subway system. Yikes.

Note: You'd have to phase to new engines, put in the electrical system, fence off tens of thousands of miles of track from tresspass, modify all grade-level crossings etc. etc. etc. If you were starting from scratch or upgrading a completely out of date system then it might make total sense.
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Old Today, 06:27 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,376 posts, read 1,346,926 times
Reputation: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Ummmm, it was an electric train carrying COAL to COAL power plant which supplied electricity to the train...

Here we have yet another McMeany! How dare you spew obvious facts to this CAGW/CACC alarmist! Once again another post which is likely to force CD to create a "Safe Space" forum where SJWs, snowflakes and people in general who suffer from TDS can go to scream, cry, throw tantrums and seek support groups where they can talk about their "feelings".

You... YOU McMeany!!! LOL!
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Old Today, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Tucson AZ & Leipzig, Germany
2,478 posts, read 7,825,648 times
Reputation: 3861
Most US long haul freight locomotives are not pure "diesel", they are large diesel powered engines that turn AC or DC generators that supply power to electric traction motors. The electric traction motors turn the axles & wheels that drive the train. The other great thing about the electric traction motors is that on long downgrades, the massive freight trains don't rely on friction air brakes alone to slow the train, they use the electric traction motors as dynamic brakes to slow down the train.

I am in Germany at present, a place where nearly all the main rail lines use locomotives powered by overhead electric lines. There is no danger to the public because there are no power lines anywhere close to the ground, they are a couple of meters above the tallest standard rail car. The electric locomotives connect to the overhead lines with a trolley arm, like what was pictured in the OP's video. It is much simpler technology, because you don't need to maintain the diesel drive part of the locomotive, it is a pure electric drive system. Here in the eastern part of Germany, at least half the power delivered to the grid comes from brown coal fired power plants. It is locally strip mined and relatively cheap power, so the electric trains are partially driven by coal power.

I ride the passenger trains here frequently, and I like the all electric trains much better than the diesel electrics. They are quieter with less vibration and noise. The all electric main line trains rip along at high speeds on tracks that are smooth as glass. I understand why the economics of this don't work very well in the USA, mainly due to the long distances from coast to coast. I am somewhat surprised that the economics out don't work for the busiest freight corridors, especially on the east coast, southeastern US, and leaving the port of Los Angeles heading east to Chicago, Memphis, Houston, Atlanta. If the price of diesel fuel in the US was as high as it is in Europe, I am guessing the cost benefit might look better in favor of overhead electrification.
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Old Today, 08:49 AM
 
3,654 posts, read 3,150,865 times
Reputation: 3553
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
They still have electric commuter trains. The South Shore, which runs from South Bend to Chicago, faithfully carries commuters and drunks going to Notre Dame games still to this day.

The northeast corridor is entirely electrified but the very few freight trains that use the section between Philadelphia and Washington are diesel powered. At one time, the Pennsylvania Railroad (of fond memory) had many hundreds of miles of electrified freight trains operating using environmentally friendly hydropower but Conrail shut down electrified freight operations in 1981 and tore up hundreds of miles of catenary.


The wacky governor of the State of Washington, Jay Inslee, just bowed out of the primaries. His main theme was global warming. I wonder if the governor was aware that at one time the Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul and Pacific Railroad had 600 miles of electrified trackage through the Cascades also hydro powered? That line is defunct with the tracks torn up.


Now it takes 7 or 8 big pollution spewing diesel locomotives to pull a heavy freight train out of Seattle up and over the Marias Pass- 3 in front, 2 in the middle and 3 on the end.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlgwOVntknA
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Old Today, 09:04 AM
Status: "Time for 25" (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Columbia, SC
7,611 posts, read 4,565,770 times
Reputation: 9078
I believe the Iowa Traction Railway is now the last electric freight railroad. If electric was better than diesel-electric, all freight railroads would be electric. Te technology for diesel has changed a lot. They are leaner burning engines now than even 10 or 20 years ago and it takes les fuel to move freight by rail than it does by truck.

How's this for irony. Union Pacific recently restored the largest steam engine they have to running condition, the UP 4014, which had been retired and sitting at a museum since 1959 if my memory serves me. It burned coal it it's hey day. Now it's a coal burner.

John Crisanti Photo

Departing Rawlins by John Crisanti, on Flickr
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Old Today, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Jewel Lake (Sagle) Idaho
27,940 posts, read 17,874,453 times
Reputation: 15920
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
And I do my best driving those pollution spewing diesel/electric internal combustion locomotives. Usually there six tied in for distributed power. And I drive them through mountains climbing grades requiring notch eight on the throttle. The highest setting. You can imagine the smoke pouring out of the stacks.
But...those ARE electric trains. If I'm not sadly mistaken, every traction motor on those locomotives is an electric motor. The diesels are just the power plants producing electricity...same as any other power plant. That should make the OP happy... It's more efficient to burn the fuel on the train to produce electricity than in a centralized power plant and then distribute the power back over expensive, resource intensive power lines and supporting structures.
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Old Today, 09:58 AM
 
5,884 posts, read 1,592,552 times
Reputation: 3641
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
Ummmm, it was an electric train carrying COAL to COAL power plant which supplied electricity to the train...
Shhh, leftists have never figured out that electric cars are dirtier than gas-powered ones. They don't understand how the vast majority of electricity is produced.
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Old Today, 10:06 AM
 
1,212 posts, read 214,820 times
Reputation: 714
Quote:
Originally Posted by EastwardBound View Post
Shhh, leftists have never figured out that electric cars are dirtier than gas-powered ones. They don't understand how the vast majority of electricity is produced.
Your missing a big fundamental part to the argument of electric cars w/ coal carbon plant for power versus 600,000-1,000,000 individual carbon fuel burners plus the coal plant (still need electricity either way) which is leading to your confusion. The end goal is to eliminate both which will take a long time unless some new discovery takes place. Coal has the same issue as Nuclear power these days, cannot get one built because NIMBY and concern for local pollution is strong.

Sometimes these things are difficult to understand. Sometime people are purposely obtuse, I won't guess.
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