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Old 08-27-2019, 01:19 PM
Status: "Time for 25" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Cone of Uncertainty
7,691 posts, read 4,588,476 times
Reputation: 9149

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkcarguy View Post
Night time, all the trains run out of power and stop lol.
I was being snarky because even electric powered trains will be mainly powered by fossil fuel at some point in the process.
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Old 08-27-2019, 01:24 PM
 
4,038 posts, read 1,899,251 times
Reputation: 3987
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
The Black Mesa and Lake Powell Railroad carried coal from the Kayenta Mine to the Navajo Power Plant near Page AZ- a distance of 78 miles. Both the mine and power plant have closed.


Now 100% of freight transportation in the USA is powered by pollution spewing internal combustion engines. The USA has no energy policy, no transportation policy and no industrial policy.


How can we ever tackle "global warming" when the essential movement of freight relies on fossil fuels?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aL9UA_fJLsk
Get a grasp on reality. One rail line is nothing. Look at China and India for God's sake. And what China is going to do to Africa.

You are doing just as much to harm the environment as anyone with this stupid crap.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,342 posts, read 4,091,761 times
Reputation: 2855
A lot of comments seem to think this railroad hauled coal for the purpose of powering the railroad. Wrong. The railroad hauled coal to the powerplant to supply power to the grid. In this situation, it became convenient for the powerplant to run a line and run the trains off its own power rather than have to use a tremendous number of trucks. In terms of total energy consumed, I have no doubt that powering the trains was far more efficient than any other mode available except maybe a pipeline of coal slurry, and even then I doubt it would beat the train.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ottomobeale View Post
Im a railfan. Electric freight trains are a thing of the long past. Not sure of the exact numbers but IIRC diesel is cheaper overall over very long distances.

Maybe T310 the railroad engineer has actual numbers.
Only in terms of capital cost. Russia runs the Trans-Siberian railway entirely electrified. See Below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
I believe the Iowa Traction Railway is now the last electric freight railroad. If electric was better than diesel-electric, all freight railroads would be electric. Te technology for diesel has changed a lot. They are leaner burning engines now than even 10 or 20 years ago and it takes les fuel to move freight by rail than it does by truck. *SNIP*
Railroads aren't electric only because they're run by short-term investors now (see the "precision scheduled railroad" nonsense) and because that represents a larger capital cost which the short-term investors hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Any guesses on the cost to convert the entire US rail system to electric? The railroads are having enough trouble installing PTC in a timely fashion, but they're going to be able to convert all the thousands and thousands of miles of rail line to electric?
PTC is an overly complex system. Providing overhead power to locomotives is nothing more than the same electric distribution technology we've been using for 100+ years now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Electrified engines cannot haul long consists like diesel/electric can. Thus it is more cost effective using diesel power.
Wrong. If anything electric engines are even more capable of hauling long consists due to the much higher horsepower available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe the Photog View Post
Modern freight locomotives are really efficient. The technology is getting better all the time, as technology tends to do. No one currently makes an electric locomotive capable of coming close to hauling what one dieself-electric can carry.
Wrong. Most electric freight engines are much more capable than diesel-electric freight engines.

Quote:
Then keep in mind that all diesels would not to be replaced by the new electrics.

A new nation-wide electric railway system would need to be uniformed so companies could still interchange locomotives. For example, I see a lot of locomotives where I live from other railroads that don't run anywhere near here. so every electric railway system would have to be uniform all over America.
Uniformity of power collection is trivial. The trains already have to be uniform in lots of other ways to be able to interchange and run on each other's railroads. The only modern road hump to that historical uniformity is the PTC garbage. Fortunately, most of the freight railroads are all choosing the same system. Unfortunately, it's a garbage system that is still partly customized to each railroad.

Quote:
Oh, the locomotives also go to Canada and Mexico, so those countries would need to go electric too because having a system where they is some electric-run lines and some diesel electric lines makes less sense than all electric.
Not really. Over in Europe, they don't just change power, they change the gauge of the tracks. Some are slow-speed automatic (Spain/France) some are more manual and replace the entire set of wheels under each car. The amount of international traffic is low enough that doing an engine change at the border isn't enough to hold back deploying electrified railroads.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:30 PM
 
24,858 posts, read 12,240,219 times
Reputation: 10638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
In Europe freight trains are shorter- no more than 30 cars- but run more frequently and faster. I'm not emphasizing labor efficiency but replacing the internal combustion engine in a comprehensive plan to fight global warming. The democratic candidates talk about climate change but none have any idea of what it will take to change things. Getting the big 18 wheelers off the roads and onto electrified trains using renewable power (hydro or nuclear) is a start. Getting the congressional clown circus to fund the transformation of the railroads rather than spending 800 billion per year on the military and endless wars may be near impossible.
Convincing the railroads to spend billions to electrify their lines won’t happen.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:48 PM
 
24,858 posts, read 12,240,219 times
Reputation: 10638
[quote]Wrong. If anything electric engines are even more capable of hauling long consists due to the much higher horsepower available.[\QUOTE]

Wrong, the electric motors will overheat and burnout climbing mountains pulling a mile long consist.

Diesel provides all the power instantly that the traction motors need with less stress. And so single freight electric locomotive needs between 6-24 MW of electricity to pull a long consist necessitating a large number of conventional power plants to provide that electricity whereas a passenger train requires 1MW. To go from Chicago to LA would require 15,000MW. Where is that power coming from?
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:51 PM
 
1,697 posts, read 668,453 times
Reputation: 3387
This thread is hilarious.

I feel like dagny tagert and Fransisco d'anconia are laughing too.
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:54 PM
 
1,697 posts, read 668,453 times
Reputation: 3387
[quote=T-310;56038835]
Quote:
Wrong. If anything electric engines are even more capable of hauling long consists due to the much higher horsepower available.[\QUOTE]

Wrong, the electric motors will overheat and burnout climbing mountains pulling a mile long consist.

Diesel provides all the power instantly that the traction motors need with less stress. And so single freight electric locomotive needs between 6-24 MW of electricity to pull a long consist necessitating a large number of conventional power plants to provide that electricity whereas a passenger train requires 1MW. To go from Chicago to LA would require 15,000MW. Where is that power coming from?

I'm guessing you work for a class 1

I worked for one of your Eastern brethern
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Old 08-27-2019, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
8,718 posts, read 11,217,605 times
Reputation: 10447
Are we missing that our long haul locomotives are electric? They're just powered by onboard diesel generators instead of overhead powerlines.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
1,027 posts, read 1,156,278 times
Reputation: 1163
The traction motors are already electric in a diesel electric, I don't think they care where the power comes from as long as there is enough of it. The problem is exactly as T-310 says though, it takes a massive amount of energy to power them for such a heavy freight train, coming through the lines it would never work unless they were severely scaled down to the ~30 car range as already stated. Diesel locomotives run from 2500-5500HP each, and make enough electricity to run a town. This was actually put to the test in Quebec years ago when an ice storm destroyed their power grid and everything was freezing up with no hope of repairs coming in time. CN ran locomotives to points where they could be connected, one was actually lifted off the rails and guided down the street by cranes to get connected to the grid.
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Old 08-27-2019, 04:25 PM
 
24,858 posts, read 12,240,219 times
Reputation: 10638
[quote=drinkthekoolaid;56038884]
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post


I'm guessing you work for a class 1

I worked for one of your Eastern brethern
BNSF. Havre subdivision.
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