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Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
30,370 posts, read 16,855,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner View Post
Tell you what...…….go to the oral surgeon and have half the upper part of the roof of your mouth cut off, then try to get some sleep after taking a couple of aspirins...……….get back to me.
The most drugs I ever got was for oral surgery. Yeah, it was painful.

And, somehow, I was able to stop on my own without getting addicted. Go figure.

The entire story about how an innocent patient (who never took drugs before) got their wisdom teeth out and suddenly became addicted . . . sounds good. But the reality is is that the majority of the addicted were already taking other drugs.
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Old Yesterday, 07:11 PM
 
11,168 posts, read 2,907,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
You should take some time and read the books on the subject. Listen to some of the podcasts with the people who wrote the books. You will learn a lot.

The logic above is that old "milk causes heroin addiction" reasoning because, after all, virtually every heroin and opiate addict started with milk.

There are really two FACTS you should start with:

1. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his NOT understanding it"
This is the case with doctors, salespeople, pharmacists and virtually everyone else involved in the chain. People will take the money almost every time - as long as there is "plausible deniability". Maybe you are chosen one who would not....take 100's of thousands in profits for doing something legal.

The Root of this is our Capitalist Predatory Medical System. This "crisis" is not a bad thing...it's a great thing! The amount of money that has been made already...and now that will be spread out to many others, will eventually be in the 100's of billions of dollars.

2. Further to #1, which is really hard to add to, the Drug Industry changed the laws (as you know, Congress doesn't actually read the bills) and changed a SINGLE WORD which made it so that many of the things you mention could not be done any longer...that is, checking up on people where there might be a problem (certain Docs or Pharmacists or Manufacturers).

This was passed by Blackburn (GOP, TN) and, of course, has a name which fools people:
"Ensuring Patient Access and Effective Drug Enforcement Act"

It's the "ensuring patient access" part that is the trick. What the law did was make it almost impossible to investigate.

Here's how the trick went.

The DEA old law had been able to freeze the shipment of drugs that it deemed posed an “imminent danger” to the community. The new law changed that standard by requiring the DEA to show “a substantial likelihood of an immediate threat” of death, serious bodily harm or drug abuse before it could stop a shipment of drugs.

What that meant is the millions of pills going somewhat was fully legal and not subject to investigation unless it could FIRST be proven that an IMMEDIATE (like NOW) threat of death exist....

What's the different between imminent and immediate? Ask Blackburn.....she took a lot of money from the opiate industry to pass this bill which did virtually nothing except ban the DEA from enforcing controls like you mention.

But why are we even talking about this? This is a feature! A good thing in Capitalist health care. Pills provide relief cheaper and who need to pay for PT or massage? For the cost of one PT session we could but 1,000 or more opiate pills.

This is a structural problem with our nation and our health care system. Until we Put The People First (behind the almighty dollar), this will continue in one way or another.

Everyone acts so outraged when, in fact, it's the system that you likely voted for (capitalist health care).
If its truly about the 'almighty dollar', why didnt they just slap a sin tax on opiate pain killers and allow them to be sold as much as possible?!! (kind of like they do with cigarettes).


This way, the govt gets their share, the pharma companies gets theirs...everyone wins?!!
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Old Yesterday, 07:38 PM
 
10,323 posts, read 6,429,113 times
Reputation: 8565
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
People in high places i.e. politicians will ALWAYS be able to get these meds when they need them. The rest of us poor jerks will have to resort to a bottle of gin and a half-dozen Tylenol to try to kill the pain after surgery or a severe injury, even cancer. You can't even get opiates in hospitals anymore





https://www.webmd.com/pain-managemen...at-hospitals#1


Two legal substances. booze and Tylenol that separately tear a human body apart over time, but when they are combined they rip the liver to shreds in a matter of weeks. We're talking a quarter-million deaths per year from alcohol and acetaminophen against the pittance of a few good-for-nothing addicts who got what they deserved.
True. My friend in Colorado got ONE pain pill while in the hospital. The nurse told her it was because the town was full of addicts.
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Old Yesterday, 08:48 PM
 
330 posts, read 105,034 times
Reputation: 186
Jeff Sessions legacy was going after legit pharma companies that manufactured opiates that serve important issues.

Never mind fentanyl and Heroin.
One of many reasons he will go down as one of the worst attorney generals ever.
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Old Yesterday, 08:53 PM
 
16,443 posts, read 4,322,324 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
If its truly about the 'almighty dollar', why didnt they just slap a sin tax on opiate pain killers and allow them to be sold as much as possible?!! (kind of like they do with cigarettes).


This way, the govt gets their share, the pharma companies gets theirs...everyone wins?!!
The Corporations ARE the government. As you know, the government can't agree on anything...during this time when was McConnell stated flatly that Congress should do NOTHING so he could make Obama look bad.

Meanwhile, the opiate producers pay off the separate legislators.

An opiate tax would do nothing. The government has no desire to balance any budget. It's the corporations themselves, the doctors, the pharma reps, the insurance companies and most everyone involved in the chain that wants the patients to GO AWAY as quickly as possible. That's done by giving them pills for their ills.

Maybe the patient needs a couple weeks off work? Nope! Employer won't go for it - take some pills and get back to work!

Maybe the patient can't retire because they lost 1/2 their net worth in the Great Recession? Solved...take some opiates and at least you won't hurt as bad doing physical work in your 60's.

The Gift from God.

The same was somewhat true of Meth. They called it the perfect American Drug because you could work two or three jobs if you took it (and, of course, that's what people had to so when wages and benefits were cut).

As I said, it's the system. An immoral and unethical and uneducated populace being taken advantage of by predatory systems.
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Old Yesterday, 08:54 PM
 
3,604 posts, read 7,739,103 times
Reputation: 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
There seems to be a concerted effort afoot to get pharmaceutical opiates banned in America.

It started with the Leslie Stahl report on opiate mills in Florida in 2009, graduated to the CDC guidelines in 2017 which put the fear of God into physicians prescribing painkillers for their legitimate patients, then to the DEA busting doctor after doctor and throwing quite a few into the slammer--which only deepened physicians' fear, even to the point of refusing to prescribe them even for terminal cancer patients.

Now with Johnson & Johnson losing half a billion dollars in a Oklahoma lawsuit and all 49 states lining up to take their shot at pharmaceutical companies who manufacture opiates, the question has to be asked:

Why should pharmaceutical companies risk their shareholder monies over a product they can do without manufacturing?

Profits on opiates sales are plummeting due to physicians refusing to write scripts for them under any circumstances. Every time a elderly person commits suicide to escape intractable pain Medicare and Social Security save hundreds of thousands of dollars. This is a powerful incentive for the Feds to allow the suicides to continue.

$500,000,000 x's 50 states equals what? 2.5 TRILLION dollars paid out???? When the liabilities manufacturing all prescription painkillers get so powerful that pharmaceutical companies simply refuse to to make them anymore, what will the 50 million people in chronic pain and the tens of thousands more suffering terminal cancer going to do??????? I see an America very soon where the strongest painkiller an American can get is Tylenol. A half a bottle of booze along with a handful of acetaminophen to kill the pain should knock out a few hundred million livers. That's a lot of incentive.
Does... does anyone here actually care?

Go ahead. Manufacture fentanyl abroad. Make that Vicodin money in Vienna.

I have no idea why you would assume anyone would care.
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Old Yesterday, 09:02 PM
 
16,443 posts, read 4,322,324 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringo1 View Post
The most drugs I ever got was for oral surgery. Yeah, it was painful.

And, somehow, I was able to stop on my own without getting addicted. Go figure.

The entire story about how an innocent patient (who never took drugs before) got their wisdom teeth out and suddenly became addicted . . . sounds good. But the reality is is that the majority of the addicted were already taking other drugs.
The Wars and the Great Recession added a LOT to the misery index in the USA....combined with easy opiates that provided a nice new market. The targets of Big Pharma were the younger rural customers....read that "relatively hopeless situations" since the old industries were long gone and the people were just sitting around with nothing to do.

It's pretty much accepted fact that the Pharma companies, pill mills, crooked docs and all created at least 6 million new addicts. Most of these people weren't druggies other then perhaps beer and pot.

Now we are at 5% of US Adults who admit them have abused opiates. No, they are not all full blown addicts, but that should give you an idea of the vast numbers involved.

Florida used to be one giant vending machine. Vans and busses came down from KY, TN, WV, etc. and CASH got you a script in the pill mill. The Docs opened up pharmacies in the same shopping centers so they made money on both ends of the transaction.

When it finally got cut off the Mexicans came in with lower cost brown heroin and delivery service...friendly and no violence involved. Now that the Mexicans are being cracked down on, Fentanyl (concentrated) is being made and that is what is killing the most people.

There really is no solution to this. But those billions will enrich a lot of people.....

The amount of money is so large...that they could offer addicts a new pickup truck and fully remodeled or new house is they **** clean.....and that would likely be cheaper than what they intend to do (which is really nothing).
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Old Yesterday, 09:10 PM
 
3,604 posts, read 7,739,103 times
Reputation: 2895
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
The Wars and the Great Recession added a LOT to the misery index in the USA....combined with easy opiates that provided a nice new market. The targets of Big Pharma were the younger rural customers....read that "relatively hopeless situations" since the old industries were long gone and the people were just sitting around with nothing to do.

It's pretty much accepted fact that the Pharma companies, pill mills, crooked docs and all created at least 6 million new addicts. Most of these people weren't druggies other then perhaps beer and pot.

Now we are at 5% of US Adults who admit them have abused opiates. No, they are not all full blown addicts, but that should give you an idea of the vast numbers involved.
I have some unwelcome news: That number was never lower than 50% at any point in history.

This is a largely Protestant/Catholic/fear-mongering/nonsense-based nation. The only reason we have more anti-drug rhetoric than actual drugs is because we all use them so much.

For god's sake, we destroyed the government of Mexico just for blow.
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Old Yesterday, 11:21 PM
 
11,168 posts, read 2,907,046 times
Reputation: 7523
Wars have been fought over opium for centuries...what we see happening today is nothing new, its a power struggle, everyone knows HOW EXTREMELY powerful opioids are, hence the number of wars fought over them!


Opioids will ALWAYS be available here in the US (in some form), but whether its legal or not, that may change from time to time, but availability will NEVER change, they are here to stay!


Opioids are so addictive and powerful because of how they make you feel, I know this feeling all too well, but for anyone who hasnt taken them...imagine taking a pill that instantly made you feel great (mentally and physically), took away majority of pain (again, mental and physical pain), and put you in a good mood...this is what opioids do.
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Old Today, 06:30 AM
 
16,443 posts, read 4,322,324 times
Reputation: 11528
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Wars have been fought over opium for centuries...what we see happening today is nothing new, its a power struggle, everyone knows HOW EXTREMELY powerful opioids are, hence the number of wars fought over them!


Opioids will ALWAYS be available here in the US (in some form), but whether its legal or not, that may change from time to time, but availability will NEVER change, they are here to stay!


Opioids are so addictive and powerful because of how they make you feel, I know this feeling all too well, but for anyone who hasnt taken them...imagine taking a pill that instantly made you feel great (mentally and physically), took away majority of pain (again, mental and physical pain), and put you in a good mood...this is what opioids do.
Well, then, we have no problem as many of the people taking them would not be the John Galts of this world...an even if JG was taking them, it would be to feel more genius - like Rushbo did.

So, probably solved. But we have to grab a couple tens of billions for the various states because it looks good to the few out there who don't know the score.

I also see no problem with opiates....except they are hard to get in some places. I was having a convo with an old friend in Vegas (he's a pot head) and he was saying he just walks out from of his apartment and they sell black tar (crude heroin/opium) which vast numbers of people put into their cigarettes for a little extra buzz.

None of that here in New England. You have to go score the real thing (white) which is probably fent. laced.
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