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Old 09-06-2019, 06:21 PM
Status: "unless there is no "there" there." (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,356 posts, read 787,245 times
Reputation: 1412

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
Sure sure

You know 2 people, one of them is a scoundrel that has lied to you the whole time you have known them and the other has been generally truthful.

The generally truthful one tells you that last weekend the liar touched their kid inappropriately when they were drunk one night and so they threw the liar out of their house and told them never to come back. They can't prove it, they don't have physical evidence and they know they will not be able to press charges.
There is no applicant for a baby-sitting job in the Trump/Stormy kerfluffle. Analogy fail.
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:13 AM
 
5,196 posts, read 1,462,067 times
Reputation: 3044
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
There is no applicant for a baby-sitting job in the Trump/Stormy kerfluffle. Analogy fail.
Nope but to make the decision to hire or not, you had to decide who you believe between the known liar and the person who has been generally truthful. You didn't assume innocent until proven guilty, you looked at the situation and made a value judgement based on your trust of the parties in it to inform your decision on what you will do.

Which is the same thing people have to do in any situation when deciding who they believe without concrete proof.

But you are pedantically right, there is no baby sitter in this equation (we can ignore that that isn't the point of an analogy, to 100% have 1 to 1 parallels with another situation, instead the point is to inspire thinking down the same path of logic).

Rather than baby sitting your kids; its leader of the most powerful country on Earth instead.

So your point here actually makes it worse than my initial scenario.
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Old 09-07-2019, 09:53 AM
 
19,341 posts, read 9,917,262 times
Reputation: 5417
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
He isn't a dictator, primarily because our political system prevents him from being one.

He is a dictator wannabe/admirer. He wishes he could be a dictator.

If our political system would allow him to put a bullet in the next person that heckled him on the street he would in a heartbeat, no second thought necessary. Pretty standard behavior for sociopathic narcissists.

Luckily he would have to be the leader of some of the countries he cozies up to like North Korea in order to actually have that power.
How do you stop a dictator???

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Old 09-07-2019, 05:51 PM
Status: "unless there is no "there" there." (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,356 posts, read 787,245 times
Reputation: 1412
Quote:
Originally Posted by zzzSnorlax View Post
Nope but to make the decision to hire or not, you had to decide who you believe between the known liar and the person who has been generally truthful. You didn't assume innocent until proven guilty, you looked at the situation and made a value judgement based on your trust of the parties in it to inform your decision on what you will do.

Which is the same thing people have to do in any situation when deciding who they believe without concrete proof.

But you are pedantically right, there is no baby sitter in this equation (we can ignore that that isn't the point of an analogy, to 100% have 1 to 1 parallels with another situation, instead the point is to inspire thinking down the same path of logic).

Rather than baby sitting your kids; its leader of the most powerful country on Earth instead.

So your point here actually makes it worse than my initial scenario.
Fine, so you don't vote for Trump. That's the equivalent here of making a decision not to hire the accused pedo baby-sitter.

I can think of about 1000 better reasons not to vote for Trump than the questionable, unprovable accusation from Stormy and her disgraced lawyer Avenatti. Did you buy into the gang-rape accusation against Justice Kavanaugh too?
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:21 PM
 
6,840 posts, read 2,095,952 times
Reputation: 6370
Quote:
Originally Posted by 205 View Post
Are the following actions or policies those you'd associate with a "fascist" or a "dictator"?

1) Passing a tax cut that resulted in all U.S. citizens keeping more of their own money (The limit on how much you can deduct from state taxes only affects a few high tax states so that is on those particular states. Ironically, the tax plan actually encourages those states to (gasp)....lower state income tax levels furthering lowering the overall tax burden for citizens of those states)

2) Support of policies that strengthen the right of all law abiding U.S. citizens to keep and bear arms. No doubt a top priority of all "fascist dictators"

3) Prison reform that lowers the severity of penalties and jail terms for non violent drug offenders and helps improve their future job prospects making it easier for them to rejoin society. A law that btw just happens to disproportionately help minority populations that have historically been discriminated against the most when it comes to sentencing and incarceration.

4) Re-negotiating trade deals with the goal of increasing manufacturing in the U.S. to hopefully boost employment opportunities for all U.S. citizens.

5) Imposing a travel ban from countries where government records on those citizens is unreliable. A travel ban very similar to the one with practically the same countries involved that the previous president imposed.

6) A policy to do everything legally and constitutionally allowed to secure our borders to protect both the safety and the economic prospects of legal U.S. citizens. A policy that would ultimately reduce the strain on social services saving the U.S. taxpayer tens of billions of dollars that is a annually spent on social services for people who broke the rules by entering the country illegally.

7) A policy and effort to outlaw late term, third trimester abortion with the exception of rape, incest, or threat to the life of a mother. I suppose some could stretch and twist this one into a "fascist" move but the fully formed (for all practical purposes) unborn child would probably beg to differ not to mention the hundreds of millions of U.S. citizens that value the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness the soon to be child is entitled to. It may be rare that a perfectly normal pregnancy is aborted in the third trimester but it isn't unreasonable or "fascist" to simply require that one's right to choose is limited to the first 6 months of a pregnancy.

8) Support of a policy that strengthens the 1st Amendment and every U.S. citizen's right to free speech as well as the press's right to a free press regardless of how unpopular or how "hateful" (i.e. "hate speech") that speech may be.

That's just to name a few. Which of these policies either passed or supported by President Trump make him a "fascist" or a "dictator"? What other policies not mentioned that he has either passed into law or supports makes him a "fascist" or a "dictator"? Is it possible that maybe he isn't really a "fascist" or a "dictator" and you just hate the man's guts or are you honestly concerned that he is on his way to becoming another murderous dictator and the second coming of Hitler?
First, despite my being a Democrat who abhors Trump, I want to commend you on your post, which is rational and well-written.

However, I have to point out two things:

1. Your post, though well-written, is slanted in a way that misrepresents some things or is vague. Things like travel bans are irrelevant. But, for instance, I have no idea in what way you imagine that Trump supports the First Amendment, since he is constantly railing against the press, trying to suppress the speech of others by intimidation, threatening lawsuits, and has said a variety of denigrating things about non-Christian religions.

2. Trump's fascist/dictatorial tendencies are best illustrated by his attitudes, his likes, and his dislikes, rather than by policies (since policies often have to be filtered through others). These alarming tendencies are shown, for instance, in his undermining of the press, his scapegoating minorities, his insulting the judiciary, his violent rhetorics, his creepy admiration of other dictatorial/authoritarian people (Kim Jong-Un, Vladimir Putin, et al.), and his general bullying. It has often been pointed out that some of his moves mirror those of Nazi Germany.
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Old 09-07-2019, 06:34 PM
Status: "unless there is no "there" there." (set 11 hours ago)
 
Location: Clyde Hill, WA
4,356 posts, read 787,245 times
Reputation: 1412
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarallel View Post
First, despite my being a Democrat who abhors Trump, I want to commend you on your post, which is rational and well-written.

However, I have to point out two things:

1. Your post, though well-written, is slanted in a way that misrepresents some things or is vague. Things like travel bans are irrelevant. But, for instance, I have no idea in what way you imagine that Trump supports the First Amendment, since he is constantly railing against the press, trying to suppress the speech of others by intimidation, threatening lawsuits, and has said a variety of denigrating things about non-Christian religions.

2. Trump's fascist/dictatorial tendencies are best illustrated by his attitudes, his likes, and his dislikes, rather than by policies (since policies often have to be filtered through others). These alarming tendencies are shown, for instance, in his undermining of the press, his scapegoating minorities, his insulting the judiciary, his violent rhetorics, his creepy admiration of other dictatorial/authoritarian people (Kim Jong-Un, Vladimir Putin, et al.), and his general bullying. It has often been pointed out that some of his moves mirror those of Nazi Germany.
First, kudos for getting back on topic. What specifically has Trump done that is in violation of the First Amendment? Doesn't he have a First Amendment right to criticize the press, which, let's face it, has done plenty to deserve criticism. Google Lawrence O'Donnell.

As long as Trump doesn't try to use his office to squelch them, he's not in violation of the 1A.
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Old 09-07-2019, 07:12 PM
 
Location: Knoxville, TN
1,791 posts, read 721,770 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by travis t View Post
First, kudos for getting back on topic. What specifically has Trump done that is in violation of the First Amendment? .
Nothing. It's great, he's played the MSM like a fiddle.
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:07 AM
 
Location: California
30,981 posts, read 33,970,014 times
Reputation: 26494
Trump isn't 99% of the things the Dem's are accusing him of being. He's probably got skeletons in the closet like all the other politicians and rich people do, but the only real thing they can accuse him of is not wanting to do things they want to do. Everything else is a smokescreen.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:47 PM
 
1 posts, read 16 times
Reputation: 10
To the OP; Don't bother trying to persuade Leftists.
As a former Leftist I can tell you that any white conservative politician elected after two terms of President Barack Obama they would be treated with disdain by the left.

The brain washing starts at a young age in school ( white patriarchy, white supremacy, white privilege etc) and of course it includes ( the gender merry-go-round, professional victimization, socialism, acid rain> global warming> climate change> climate justice).


The problem for Leftist is Donald Trump who they claimed was a really a Democrat, an anti-semite, a Russian spy working for Putin; turned out to be the first conservative politician who fought back twice as hard as pro-choice activist.

Any progressive worth their salt will gladly tell you the reasons why they dislike America. Donald Trump represents all of them.

So, what's the point in debating? Facts don't matter.
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Old 09-22-2019, 09:55 PM
 
21,068 posts, read 9,090,229 times
Reputation: 7285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carte Nior View Post
To the OP; Don't bother trying to persuade Leftists.
As a former Leftist I can tell you that any white conservative politician elected after two terms of President Barack Obama they would be treated with disdain by the left.

The brain washing starts at a young age in school ( white patriarchy, white supremacy, white privilege etc) and of course it includes ( the gender merry-go-round, professional victimization, socialism, acid rain> global warming> climate change> climate justice).


The problem for Leftist is Donald Trump who they claimed was a really a Democrat, an anti-semite, a Russian spy working for Putin; turned out to be the first conservative politician who fought back twice as hard as pro-choice activist.

Any progressive worth their salt will gladly tell you the reasons why they dislike America. Donald Trump represents all of them.

So, what's the point in debating? Facts don't matter.
If brainwashing starts at an early age then itís the parents doing that. And I donít know anyone brainwashed by their parents.
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