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Around last week, Zoe Quinn, a feminist activist, accused Alec Howolka, a video game developer, of being emotionally and physically abusive in a Twitter post.
I believe she said it was due to a mental illness, and that he had already apologized and come to an understanding privately, but she decided to make the post public anyway. She has thousands of followers, and the media latched onto it. Zoe Quinn had never contacted law enforcement about it, and did not do so. She did not take any legal remedies. Zoe Quinn did not speak up about this until now. Zoe claimed that she thought Howolka changed, but he did not http://web.archive.org/web/201908300...41941525745664
One of the former business partners, Scott Benson, made a post on medium.com saying that Alec was abusive towards him, though because of his mental illness (this detail sandwiched in there), calling himself a "survivor", and arguing that it was understandable that he died. I believe he said there were other women saying Alec abused them https://medium.com/@bombsfall/alec-2618dc1e23e
None of those people went to the police or law enforcement. Unlike people like Weinstein, Cosby, Spacey, etc. Howolka lacked the financial wealth and power that would insulate himself, so Quinn should not have feared going to the police IMO. If anything she has the said power.
I understand that people are strongly against sexual, physical, and emotional abuse and want to protect society and women in particular. At the same time, unproven allegations can very quickly destroy a professional career and family connections. I think there needs to be action taken to prevent Twitter mobs and to encourage any accusers to go to the police or law enforcement in a timely matter; they may not believe you, or criticize you, and it may take a long time, but it's something you must endure to get justice. I also harshly criticize people saying that it's not the accusers' fault that an (alleged) abuser committed suicide, or that you cannot drive someone to suicide; you absolutely can if their professional and familial connections are taken away. Some of the pro-Quinn people say it's offensive to ask for proof; I say that it's an inappropriate attitude and not a reasonable objection.
I am also extremely disappointed in the mainstream (Western) media for not airing much about this dilemma; only RT of Russia had an op-ed warning against Twitter mobs. Some op-eds in western pubs, like the one by Laurie Penny, conclude that Holowka is definitely an abuser (despite lack of a law enforcement investigation or lawsuit) https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1168625632793808899 and https://www.wired.com/story/videogam...ale-fragility/ . This is a dangerous attitude as people can be, and have been, falsely accused.
I know City-Data is made of older adults who are not connected to gaming culture. It's important for us - and I'm a self-identified progressive Millennial liberal from a big city - to make it uncomfortable for people condoning mob shaming. I feel Zoe Quinn, Scott Benson, and Laurie Penny et al are making it dangerous in society.
Around last week, Zoe Quinn, a feminist activist, accused Alec Howolka, a video game developer, of being emotionally and physically abusive in a Twitter post. zoë
I believe she said it was due to a mental illness, and that he had already apologized and come to an understanding privately, but she decided to make the post public anyway. She has thousands of followers, and the media latched onto it. Zoe Quinn had never contacted law enforcement about it, and did not do so. She did not take any legal remedies. Zoe Quinn did not speak up about this until now. Zoe claimed that she thought Howolka changed, but he did not zoë
One of the former business partners, Scott Benson, made a post on medium.com saying that Alec was abusive towards him, though because of his mental illness (this detail sandwiched in there), calling himself a "survivor", and arguing that it was understandable that he died. I believe he said there were other women saying Alec abused them https://medium.com/@bombsfall/alec-2618dc1e23e
None of those people went to the police or law enforcement. Unlike people like Weinstein, Cosby, Spacey, etc. Howolka lacked the financial wealth and power that would insulate himself, so Quinn should not have feared going to the police IMO. If anything she has the said power.
I understand that people are strongly against sexual, physical, and emotional abuse and want to protect society and women in particular. At the same time, unproven allegations can very quickly destroy a professional career and family connections. I think there needs to be action taken to prevent Twitter mobs and to encourage any accusers to go to the police or law enforcement in a timely matter; they may not believe you, or criticize you, and it may take a long time, but it's something you must endure to get justice. I also harshly criticize people saying that it's not the accusers' fault that an (alleged) abuser committed suicide, or that you cannot drive someone to suicide; you absolutely can if their professional and familial connections are taken away. Some of the pro-Quinn people say it's offensive to ask for proof; I say that it's an inappropriate attitude and not a reasonable objection.
I am also extremely disappointed in the mainstream (Western) media for not airing much about this dilemma; only RT of Russia had an op-ed warning against Twitter mobs. Some op-eds in western pubs, like the one by Laurie Penny, conclude that Holowka is definitely an abuser (despite lack of a law enforcement investigation or lawsuit) https://twitter.com/PennyRed/status/1168625632793808899 and https://www.wired.com/story/videogam...ale-fragility/ . This is a dangerous attitude as people can be, and have been, falsely accused.
I know City-Data is made of older adults who are not connected to gaming culture. It's important for us - and I'm a self-identified progressive Millennial liberal from a big city - to make it uncomfortable for people condoning mob shaming. I feel Zoe Quinn, Scott Benson, and Laurie Penny et al are making it dangerous in society.
This is gamergate 2.0.zoe quinn, feminism and social justice has blood on their hands.
Yes, if there's another thread, a merge would be great!
His sister said he wished the best for Quinn: https://web.archive.org/web/20190831...84648296222721 - I don't know the veracity of the statement, but my feeling is that unleashing a mob is like playing with fire.
I know e-mail forwards were the thing of the day, but it's good to let older adults know about this
Also this was the Twitter post from Benson https://twitter.com/bombsfall/status...47676907118592 - I notice the NITW Twitter has no "in memory of" or "rest in peace" for Holowka. I do feel that Benson in fact was at best not close to Holowka, and may have in fact resented him the whole time. He, behind Holowka's back, told other people not to work with him even though AFAIK Holowka had apologized.
The page https://steamcommunity.com/app/48151...2851367260591/ has a listing of other posts about Alec Howolka - apparently there are other accusations of him being rude, yelling, or paranoid (and suicide threats can be abusive, though he did actually kill himself)
An abuser of knowing, willing bad faith (think Brandi Worley) is one thing, and such should be condemned.
The issue is that there was never any law enforcement investigation nor formal legal action which established Quinn's allegations as true beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal) or the equivalent standard for civil cases ("the preponderance of the evidence"). The question is whether Holowka counts as an "abuser" (as in the knowing kind).
Now him lashing out due to mental illness is a different matter; that deserves treatment and compassion, something the game Night in the Woods tried to address. It is ironic that the game itself treated Mae (main character) with compassion but the instinct with Holowka was to publicly air his dirty laundry.
The response to a person saying that Holowka is definitively an "abuser" is to question them, asking them "are you sure?"
Reject any claims that asking for proof ("receipts" in internet-speak) is abusive or demeaning, and frankly I say it's OK to be "sealioning" because making allegations without proof and unleashing an internet mob IS abusive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
Twitter mobs are horrible.
Abusers are horrible too.
You can argue that mobs are bad without defending abusers.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 21 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,550 posts, read 16,536,658 times
Reputation: 6033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicman
An abuser of knowing, willing bad faith (think Brandi Worley) is one thing, and such should be condemned.
The issue is that there was never any law enforcement investigation nor formal legal action which established Quinn's allegations as true beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal) or the equivalent standard for civil cases ("the preponderance of the evidence"). The question is whether Holowka counts as an "abuser" (as in the knowing kind).
Now him lashing out due to mental illness is a different matter; that deserves treatment and compassion, something the game Night in the Woods tried to address. It is ironic that the game itself treated Mae (main character) with compassion but the instinct with Holowka was to publicly air his dirty laundry.
The response to a person saying that Holowka is definitively an "abuser" is to question them, asking them "are you sure?"
Reject any claims that asking for proof ("receipts" in internet-speak) is abusive or demeaning, and frankly I say it's OK to be "sealioning" because making allegations without proof and unleashing an internet mob IS abusive.
.
Im not worried about legal status here. There are plenty of abusers who walk free simply because their wives or girlfriends didnt come forward fast enough.
If you simply think they should have tried harder to get him help if he was mentally ill, say so,
If you believe she is lying about the abuse, say so.
But if you make this a "what can you prove in court" argument then you have lost me, because that has nothing to do with whether he did it or not, but simply if he made enough mistakes for a jury to convict him.
Legal status is a good barometer because the question is "did he do it?" A mob seeing allegations of abuse eont stop to ponder and weigh the evidence while a court will.
As for cases that dont go to court, it is true that people get away with crimes or bad behavior, but it is more important to protect innocent people from false or mischaracterizes accusations than to pursue people for bad acts that are unproven
Also I do think the other parties failed to get proper help; if someone threatens suicide you call the authorities regardless of whether it's a cynical ploy or a genuine cry for help. Unpleasant anti suicide mechanisms will get the cynical folks to stop. I'm sure its exhausting bring around a mentally I'll person, but cutting ties privately is a better choice than sticking a mob.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
.
Im not worried about legal status here. There are plenty of abusers who walk free simply because their wives or girlfriends didnt come forward fast enough.
If you simply think they should have tried harder to get him help if he was mentally ill, say so,
If you believe she is lying about the abuse, say so.
But if you make this a "what can you prove in court" argument then you have lost me, because that has nothing to do with whether he did it or not, but simply if he made enough mistakes for a jury to convict him.
If you believe she is lying about the abuse, say so.
It goes beyond that. There are cases where people act in good faith but misidentify their attackers, or they misremembered the event. The longer one waits to take action, the more distorted a memory may be.
Having said that several of Quinn's critics have accused her of that on this and previous occasions. I have not checked the veracity of these previous accusations but this is all the more reason to pause.
As for the other people accusing Holowka, I believe they are only accusing him of yelling at them while Quinn had different accusations.
The accuser made those claims on Twitter while in the United States, and forced a Canadian man to commit suicide in Canada. This situation also crosses international borders and jurisdictions.
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