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Old Today, 12:32 PM
 
16,718 posts, read 4,389,174 times
Reputation: 11656

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed067 View Post
I donít honestly think there is nothing you can do. Sure make it harder to buy a gun but at some point itís not worth it. Especially when you can buy a gun online or out of the back of a car or one of your friends.
It's all about "harm reduction" - which means that if you make people even just a tad more responsible, you save lives and injuries.

There is never a goal of zero in any public policy other than perhaps disease eradication.

A lot of people would be alive today even with very basics. Statistics already show that owning a gun increases gun injuries and death (likely to yourself or a family member or friend).

So just having people who aren't really into them get rid of theirs...would make a big diff.

Example - my dad has a couple handguns that he bought in the 1990's when it was much more dangerous in the Miami area....cars stalled on 95 were being robbed or hijacked. So he kept one in the glove compartment.

Years...even decades...later, they are sitting on top of the closet shelf in his condo and no way ready for use or anything else. If he had even the slightest registration type of situation, the state would be sending him a renewal and also an offer to buy it back if he wasn't using it. He'd take them up on it.

As it stands, it's remotely possible that one of his grandkids or someone else (guest, visitor) could have stole it or taken it. In fact, one of his grandkids did die - by gun (just not that one).....

Look, as my title says I'm the last normal person in the USA (ha ha). I realize crime rates have come down and therefore am certainly not a "take all the guns back now" type of person. At the other end of the spectrum, the very idea that a small minority of gun nuts are making us spend 100's of billions (and more eventually) on hardening schools and giving our kid PTSD....who should pay for all that?

The Constitution says nothing about a free ride. If I have the right to own a boat and navigate the waters of the US (and I do), the government doesn't have to fix my boat, scrape the barnacles off the hull and to have the boat not be registered. Costs for Constitutional Rights or other rights are born by the users/community/etc. through taxes, fees, registrations, etc.

The costs to society of raising millions of little kids who are told them might get shot...is quite high. This is very different than, for example, teaching kids about firearms or how to use them. Now they are being told someone else might shoot them.
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Old Today, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
7,038 posts, read 3,486,835 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
If perfect is not an acceptable standard, then the opposite would be that if I miss and an innocent bystander gets hit, do we say that we accept that since we didn't require perfection?
Yes. Bc perfection had never been a standard for anything. Due diligence? Yes. Reasonable care? Yes. Fiduciary responsibility? Yep. All those are guidelines for people to do stuff and not be legally or morally responsible for they outcome. Have you ever seen "perfection" as a standard?
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Old Today, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
10,186 posts, read 5,637,075 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
The "we" to whom you refer? Are you speaking for an anti-government group? Militias? All gun owners? Your proposals for the type of America in which you want to reside?

The "we" is probably everyone who has ever been cheated by the government. The Native Americans, those affected badly by the ACA, those out there arguing pipelines, those on the short end of the stick in the New Orleans flood, etc, etc, etc
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Old Today, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Texas Hill Country
10,186 posts, read 5,637,075 times
Reputation: 8548
Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieB.Good View Post
Yes. Bc perfection had never been a standard for anything. Due diligence? Yes. Reasonable care? Yes. Fiduciary responsibility? Yep. All those are guidelines for people to do stuff and not be legally or morally responsible for they outcome. Have you ever seen "perfection" as a standard?

Navy nuclear reactor program
Subsafe
Navy pilot school


those at least come to mind in under a minute
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Old Today, 12:41 PM
 
Location: A safe distance from San Francisco
8,816 posts, read 6,265,576 times
Reputation: 8884
Having a 2nd Amendment in place in today's culture is about as sensible as having an elevator in an outhouse. In another thread recently, I posted the only solution that could work. Conceived of nearly 70 years ago....but our grandparents were smarter than we are in many respects.

No amount of tweaking around the edges would make any difference whatsoever. Most of us have already admitted that. This would. And it could be done....not next week or next year, but set as a long-term goal. We'd just need to make sure we don't commission Charles Forbin to design and build it.

Much as we'd all (though I'll admit there are some I'm not so sure about) love to be able to live in peace and security absent such measures, we know better than to hold out such hope. The direction in which we are heading is absolutely unacceptable.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/56090735-post130.html
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Old Today, 12:46 PM
 
Location: SDL/PDX/RDU
4,882 posts, read 2,628,008 times
Reputation: 5673
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Like I said the rich would be armed, the rest of the everyday surfs would not.


Also I'm sure the thugs in da hood and biker gangs will be rushing down to the insurance office to get insured. I'm sure when they sell a gun on the street they will ask for proof of insurance before selling it.

You know all these ridiculous proposals being posted would never happen anyway, it would be struck down in court or there would be such massive non-compliance anyway that it would be moot.
Sure, there are also a lot of folks driving that don't carry liability insurance but if you're pulled over or if you're involved in an incident and lack coverage there are serious consequences. It's just a tool to assign responsible ownership. I don't see that as a problem.

I don't buy the rich v. poor issue either. It comes down to how much it means to you to own what you want. A person with means enough to drive a high performance vehicle will most certainly pay more than someone with a beater. Perhaps someone that chooses to own a (or many) high power firearms should pay more than someone with a single hunting rifle or personal protection handgun.

At the end of the day, throwing your hands up and saying "nothing can be done, nothing will work" doesn't wash anymore. The drumbeat is getting louder. Gun owners need to get on board, offer solutions or risk getting run over. Their choice.
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Old Today, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
7,038 posts, read 3,486,835 times
Reputation: 3001
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
Navy nuclear reactor program
Subsafe
Navy pilot school


those at least come to mind in under a minute
I don't even know the regulations on safe operation on any of those. I would still put money that perfection is not the standard they use for safely operating anything under their control.

And even if it was, that's still not a reason for you to get a blanket pass on regulations for a personal choice. Shooting is not your job, nor is it a necessary part of your life. Objecting to rules getting in the way of you being perfect at it is reasonable excuse.
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Old Today, 12:52 PM
 
2,534 posts, read 689,384 times
Reputation: 2631
Quote:
Originally Posted by TamaraSavannah View Post
The "we" is probably everyone who has ever been cheated by the government. The Native Americans, those affected badly by the ACA, those out there arguing pipelines, those on the short end of the stick in the New Orleans flood, etc, etc, etc
Pardon my assumption, but if I am hearing or speculating correctly, you are a Katrina survivor? I am truly sorry for the tragedy and loss you must have suffered at the hands of Hurricaine Katrina and in the disastrous aftermath. (you've made several mentions of it and I believe a lot of folks permanently evacuated/relocated to Texas afterwards)

Watching the sheer devastation and the hopelessness of those affected by this week's tremendous storm must be a painful memory. My best to you.
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Old Today, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,483 posts, read 3,155,382 times
Reputation: 9932
Reopen the crazy house.
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Old Today, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Just over the horizon
8,334 posts, read 2,868,139 times
Reputation: 4517
Quote:
Originally Posted by take57 View Post
One million dollar liability coverage on each firearm owned. If the government can compel liability coverage on automobiles which can be equally as lethal is not used responsibly, they should be able to do the same for firearms.



That would constitute a tax on exercising a constitutional right and would essentially bar lower income citizens from owning a firearm.

You don't have a constitutional right to drive a car.
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