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Old 09-09-2019, 09:07 AM
Location: Round Rock, TX
2,865 posts, read 871,880 times
Reputation: 840


Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Actually you are terribly wrong about modern divorce laws. Maybe want to educate yourself a bit. Easy to do these days.
Well more men are starting to win court battles so that's good

Old 09-09-2019, 09:09 AM
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
22,554 posts, read 22,108,912 times
Reputation: 21865
Originally Posted by momonkey View Post
In 1972 women decided they wanted equality.

They marched in the streets.

They burned their bras (not sure why).

The truth is equality with men is about the last thing women want.
Old 09-09-2019, 09:15 AM
Location: Middle of the ocean
32,756 posts, read 20,703,595 times
Reputation: 47315
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Actually you are terribly wrong about modern divorce laws. Maybe want to educate yourself a bit. Easy to do these days.
Yep. My husband's ex got nada for spousal support.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:34 AM
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,505 posts, read 10,439,118 times
Reputation: 8070
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
High IQ is relevant for advancing society via scientific discovery or any number of tangible contributions to human life.

Historically, high IQ has been irrelevant for men if not coupled with the ability to support a family and completely irrelevant (and frequently viewed as a negative) for women who have historically been judged on beauty and in some instances (dowries) how much money she brought into the marriage. Marriage was much more of a business deal in the past. Survival for women and gaining offspring for men.

I would guess that High IQ today is still irrelevant if it’s the ONLY asset one has to offer. A person with a High IQ only may solve the problem of cold fusion, but is unlikely to be successful at finding a mate unless they also have other desirable traits.
Perhaps, but I wasn’t arguing that high IQ is helpful in finding a mate. In fact, in many cases, it can be a deterrent, in both sexes. I was arguing this statement,

“If anything, we need quality people with good looks, high IQs, who can compete in the modern society.”

Where someone with a high IQ is more likely to be able to compete in society, regardless of their looks.
Old 09-09-2019, 09:47 AM
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
22,554 posts, read 22,108,912 times
Reputation: 21865
Originally Posted by CrowGirl View Post
I read the article and the study abstract. Unfortunately the full study is not available without purchase. I respect Cornell and the issue may be with the way the study has been summarized but I don't see how the conclusion is supported by the methodology. If I understand it correctly they used data on reent marriages to construct a sort of construct. Then they compared the construct to unmarried men to determine how many are as economincally well-off or less well-off than the construct.

Assuming that the construct is calculated correctly and is better off than more than a majority of the available males, I think it is a big jump to conclude that therefore enough women won't marry until they meet someone like or better than the construct that it impacts the overall marriage rate. For one, couldn't it just as likely mean that people are now holding off on getting married until they are more established? And why suppose that the decision making is solely on the women? What if men were deciding they didn't want to marry if they didn't have a certain level of achievement?

I don't buy those explanations either, I simply throw them out there as alternative explanations for the results of the study. I wish I'd been able to read the whole thing because honestly the summaries make it look pretty sloppy with rspect to why the conclusions flow logically from the data/results.

And if they used married men as a model for the sociodemographic it would inflate the income of their synthetic potential unmarried man as married men statistically make at least 30K more/year than real unmarried men.
Old 09-09-2019, 09:53 AM
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
22,554 posts, read 22,108,912 times
Reputation: 21865
Originally Posted by Luciano700 View Post
Well more men are starting to win court battles so that's good
Yes, and more states have 50/50 shared custody, more states have abolished or greatly restricted alimony, more women are in the workforce, more men are taking on greater parenting roles.
So now all his stuff was paid for with her income as well, she has an income so doesn't need to be financially supported for the rest of her life, and if he has shard custody no need for child support.
Sounds to me men have a better divorce deal than in the past. With the exception of child support enforcement.
Old 09-09-2019, 09:55 AM
10,473 posts, read 7,064,620 times
Reputation: 4348
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
But even when racism was rampant in this country a black man with little earning ability was better than no man at all. Black women were at the bottom of the totem pole. Better to have a husband than not. Same was true for white women to a lesser degree but women needed husbands.

Things began to get better after the civil rights movement and today everyone white, black, man, woman have equal financial opportunities yet marriage rates are decreasing, granted according to studies at a higher rate in the black community. Marriage rates in the black community have remained pretty consistent. Should they not have increased with the increasing ability for black men to provide and protect and be in the traditional role of husband?

There is equal opportunity today.....but that is not the same as "equal chances". People inherit unequal chances.....due to past unequal opportunities. If my parents generation faced unequal opportunity because of legal discrimination and it stunted what they achieved.....as a child of my parents I am starting life off with unequal chances relative to those whose parents opportunities were not stymied due to race. Class affords advantages and disadvantage just like race does. One of the impact of of racism is that it placed blacks disproportionately in the lower class....and life chances are not equal for those raised poor relative to those from the middle and upper class, notwithstanding "equal opportunity".

Its like saying that everyone in New Orleans had equal opportunity to leave before Katrina.....but because some people did not have cars or money.....they did not have an equal chance to leave as others.
Old 09-09-2019, 10:03 AM
5,328 posts, read 5,184,460 times
Reputation: 6435
Originally Posted by 2mares View Post
Materialism, such as?

We seem to ignore the fact that 57.1% of women work while 69.1% of men work.
That the average income of both single men and single women are about the same.
People tend to marry withing their own socioeconomic group
married men out earn unmarried men.

Why is all that ignored and you try to push some agenda that young women are unemployed, broke and dependent and are only attracted to young men loaded with money that can buy them stuff.

So besides earning an income, a young women spends twice the time caring for a mans children and twice the time on housework, cooking, etc. than men do.
Gender materialism is a big topic in itself. Men have fewer easily satisfayable needs and wants the rest comes from the necessity to constantly display their peacock tail feathers to women. Women just want more of everything even though they do not have a pressing need to impress the opposite sex with their possessions and earning potential.
Perhaps pople tend to marry withing their own socioeconomic group, but income differential within the same group can be significant. A miracle happens and an invisible hand matches men who make more with women who make less or nothing, the other way around not so much. But marriages are no longer about just income it is about long term income & status prospective. Recent study of North Dakota oil boom showed that a spike in male' income lead to a spite of out of wedlock births and marriage stagnation or decline. Researchers speculate it is because women are concerned about lack of education and long term income prospects of roughnecks who made it big in the oil fields. Saddling a man mule with a sizable child support payment to live a life of an independent woman that seems to be a trend among lower income women who do not feel like their blue collar socioeconomic peers are a good match nowadays because of their steep depreciation in the damaging lines of work and low status.
Old 09-09-2019, 10:04 AM
Location: Camberville
12,214 posts, read 17,005,334 times
Reputation: 20256
There are few better forms of birth control than using terms like "beta male," "soyboy," "cucks," etc seriously as a chronologically grown man. Far more effective than condoms! Interestingly, it seems like those are frequently the types complaining about these issues.

I don't think the "blame" is on either gender, but the role of marriage is shifting and I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. Once upon a time, even women in the working world relied on men for economic stability especially with the lack of childcare and opportunities for mothers. Men relied on women for care of the home, children, and, eventually, elderly parents. Now, more couples are looking for equality. I make significantly more money than my boyfriend, though his earning potential is likely higher than mine. We both are responsible for keeping our apartment tidy, doing laundry, cooking meals, and stocking the fridge.

Marriage isn't a priority for us. Economically, it doesn't make sense at his law school debt would open me up to risk and my income would limit his income based repayment. My credit is better and will allow us to purchase a home that we can afford on my income alone, where his credit and student loan debt would make that more difficult. When we have decided we can afford children, we will make sure we are both protected legally. Neither of us is in a position where staying at home would be possible, and I would expect him to play an equal role in parenting.

While both of us come from parents who have been married for more than 30 years each, we also know that long marriages don't mean happy ones. Both sets of parents stayed together because it was economically necessary to do so, and so both of us prioritize avoiding that same scenario. We also both had parents who fit traditional gender roles in their marriage, with our mothers spending time at home and primarily responsible for housework while our fathers traveled or worked long hours for work and were at best part-time parents. When our fathers lost jobs and eventually each had health issues that limited employment, we watched our moms take on low level work because - despite being college educated - they didn't prioritize their careers and weren't able to financially support their families when the need came. My boyfriend and I both decided long before we met that we weren't going to replicate this type of arrangement, and it seems like most of our generation are in the same boat.
Old 09-09-2019, 10:25 AM
Location: Cumberland Co., TN
22,554 posts, read 22,108,912 times
Reputation: 21865
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Men giving up on expectations should be matched by women giving up on their expectations. So far it is one way road. Yep, men preferring to mate with a woman "who saved herself" is a biological thing, if men gave up on that women can give up on expecting a husband-provider.
I think it is a psychological thing. Men are afraid they wont measure up to a woman's previous lovers. If she never had one she has nothing to compare to.
The entire idea of provider is based on woman inability to financially support herself and children due to mans laws restricting women in the workforce and their pay.
What is more comparable today is women giving up on expecting a husband-provider while man gives up on a wife-child bearer, nurturer, caregiver, cook and maid.

Again, over 50% of married mothers work therefore the husband is not the provider anymore than the wife is the provider.
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