U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
29,716 posts, read 40,157,768 times
Reputation: 19102

Advertisements

Here's the facts. 62% of hospitals in the US are non-profit. 20% are government and the remainder - 18% - are for profit. What's the problem again?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
11,343 posts, read 10,366,026 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Even if those are not-for-profit from a legal standpoint, how is that not-for-profit from a practical standpoint?
There are certain rules and regulations that not for profit hospitals have to abide by, that for profit hospitals do not. I know of one for profit hospital that requires a $350 credit card charge in the ER for patients with no insurance. They treat them first, as they have to by law, but then they charge them before they leave. Many claim to not have a credit card, but even those people will likely choose another hospital the next time they come in for something. Not for profit hospitals could never get away with this. Also, the for profit hospitals take the minimum number of Medicare and Medicaid patients required to maintain their certification. Again, not for profit hospitals don't do this.

In my experience, the way the for profit hospitals are profitable, is by decreasing the number of patients, by weeding out the no/poor paying insurance. Then they hire the minimum number of employees to cover them. I sometimes worked in a hospital that went for profit, and it was amazing to watch. The caseload in the operating room went way down, and the hospital made more money than ever before. After a while, they no longer required me, as an occasional doctor who billed the insurance companies directly, for his own services. They only needed a few, that the hospital employed.

The for profit hospitals have to pay property taxes, which, in NJ are in the millions. But they are still very profitable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Haiku
4,759 posts, read 2,758,904 times
Reputation: 6982
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
Remember when hospitals were “not for profit” and instead became a money making machine for stockholders? And we're making America Great Again?

You need to read the story of the N.M. mother and what happened to her.

An amazing story of what happens to people when things start to go bad. The hospital demands payment, sues, and the unbelievable fallout from it all for a divorced mother working two jobs to support her three children. No one in America should have to deal with this problem!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/h...ical-debt.html

https://www.newmexicopbs.org/product...inst-patients/
The title focuses on "for profit" hospitals, but it is worth noting that in the article linked-to in the OP is this:

Quote:
In Memphis, Methodist Le Bonheur Healthcare, a nonprofit hospital, filed 8,300 lawsuits from 2014 through 2018, including some against its own employees, ....
So the problem is not unique to for-profit hospitals. Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending for-profit healthcare, I am just pointing out that there is more going on here than a profit motive.

At any rate, whether it's for-profit or non-profit, there is a problem in this country with how healthcare is provided.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Old Mother Idaho
21,928 posts, read 14,681,865 times
Reputation: 16236
Non-profit never meant no charge for medical treatment.

It only means a corporation was formed for other reasons than giving a profit to it's owners and/or shareholders.

That means the owners may not make any money from owning the corporation, but there's nothing to stop the owner from receiving money as the corporate manager. If doctors own the corporation, it doesn't stop them from making money practicing medicine. They just can't make any money as owners of the building.

Since for-profit corporations must pay taxes on buildings, and non-profits don't, there are lots of doctors that form non-profits to make more money than if the corporation was for-profit. Their for-profit dividends would be taxed too, but there are no dividends in non-profit to tax.

Any profit that comes goes back into the non-profit operation, so it's one way doctors can practice on the cheap, avoiding lots of tax burden. The costs of the facilities are still covered by the medical charges. The doctors still get paid, along with the rest of the staff, and all the public tax burden is placed on the for-profits.

It works for all the little hospitals in little towns that can't compete with big city hospitals, but not so well when there's a lot of competition in big cities.

The non-profits that can attract the best doctors tend to be the most non-competitive because they are the best place to exit still living and cured. They can also be the most expensive, too.

The best never comes cheap no matter what the corporation is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 05:46 PM
 
6,735 posts, read 2,045,790 times
Reputation: 6306
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
Remember when hospitals were “not for profit” and instead became a money making machine for stockholders? And we're making America Great Again?

You need to read the story of the N.M. mother and what happened to her.

An amazing story of what happens to people when things start to go bad. The hospital demands payment, sues, and the unbelievable fallout from it all for a divorced mother working two jobs to support her three children. No one in America should have to deal with this problem!

As Patients Struggle With Bills, Hospital Sues Thousands
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/h...ical-debt.html

https://www.newmexicopbs.org/product...inst-patients/
Very disturbing, of course.

I hope you won't mind that I'd also like to add a point about the investigation being from the New York Times. Trump has bamboozled his supporters into imagining that everything coming from the NYT is "fake," because he (and maybe his supporters) have a problem with making fine distinctions. He seems incapable of refuting a particular point in a particular story, so he damns the whole newspaper. In fact, the NYT is one of the few papers with the resources to really do extensive investigations, and anyone who respects information should respect that. In fact, the funny thing is that so many television stations do stories that begin, "According to the New York Times..."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 10:36 PM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
30,451 posts, read 28,015,067 times
Reputation: 81714
The first post of the thread has two main points: the story of what happened to a single working mother who had major issues after being sued, and the other point of for profit hospitals. I’m saddened by both points, but I have a great deal of empathy for the mother and her children after being sued by the hospital. This shouldn’t happen!

I’m from a generation when most hospitals were all connected to a religion; they were supported by the particular faith that connected the hospital to them. Never did they sue someone for payments. There were also government hospitals: city county state and the VA, who also provided services to those in need. They would attempt to collect on medical care but again I never heard of anyone being sued for an outstanding bill.

Now it appears that medical costs are so high most people can’t get treatment unless they have insurance, make arrangements for paying the bills over time, or have insurance; and insurance doesn’t cover all the costs so individuals continue to dig deep into their savings if they have any.

Time has changed and no longer can you afford to be ill in this country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,156 posts, read 34,602,552 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
Remember when hospitals were “not for profit” and instead became a money making machine for stockholders? And we're making America Great Again?

You need to read the story of the N.M. mother and what happened to her.

An amazing story of what happens to people when things start to go bad. The hospital demands payment, sues, and the unbelievable fallout from it all for a divorced mother working two jobs to support her three children. No one in America should have to deal with this problem!

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/03/h...ical-debt.html

https://www.newmexicopbs.org/product...inst-patients/
Can’t get behind NYT Paywall so I had to go fish for information about this hospital and case, in particular.

Carlsbad Medical Center in NM is a for profit hospital. Nonetheless, it provided $28 million in uncompensated care, last year. Unlike not for profit hospitals, a for profit hospital does not qualify for exemption from taxes, including property taxes.

Not for Profit hospitals are not prevented from profiting. Many do. Some report $ hundreds of millions in profits each year. What they can’t do is use those profits to declare a dividend for shareholders.

Most hospitals in the US are not for profit.

As it relates to Misti Price, it appears she ignored bills and the summons and was stunned to learn her wages had been garnished.

I wonder how Ms Price would feel if her employer chose to not pay her and ignored her attempts to get paid.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Places you dream of
20,637 posts, read 12,358,120 times
Reputation: 8951
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
I cant speak for the rest of the country, but most hospitals in my area are still not for profit hospitals. At least all the major hospitals, anyway. Around here, it is usually the smaller hospitals that change over to for profit, and they are usually the hospitals that were not very good in the first place.
Yes. There are still many. I just bought a $35 ticket to a bingo that raises money for a children’s hospital. I can donate in different ways at the event, lots of fun, and quite a bit of money is raised. Anyone can help - look at St Jude’s. ??? Do a kind thing and help the local hospital, never know when you might need them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,156 posts, read 34,602,552 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
I cant speak for the rest of the country, but most hospitals in my area are still not for profit hospitals. At least all the major hospitals, anyway. Around here, it is usually the smaller hospitals that change over to for profit, and they are usually the hospitals that were not very good in the first place.
This is true for the entire US.

Most hospitals are Not for Profit which does not mean they can’t profit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Barrington
47,156 posts, read 34,602,552 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eumaois View Post
Even if those are not-for-profit from a legal standpoint, how is that not-for-profit from a practical standpoint?
Not for profits are NOT precluded from profiting. They cannot however use those profits to pay dividends to shareholders.

Those that qualify for Not for Profit status receive huge breaks on income, sales and property taxes.

Instead, they can use profits to advertise, acquire other hospitals, acquire medical practices, expand and renovate.

All hospitals, regardless of their charter, provide uncompensated care. It’s the nature of the beast and it qualifies as a deduction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top