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Old 09-08-2019, 03:09 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Well, it's 15 years after you went to school and my relatives that teach have communicated that the parents and students attitudes have greatly worsened.

If the kid is doing bad, it's the teachers fault, even if they don't study or turn in homework.

Many of the worst school districts have faced pressure for expelling a disproportionate number of black students which has been deemed defacto racism under the disparate impact theory. Thus, there has been curtailing of punishment on such students.

There are also pressures to improve graduation rates so basically, teachers have zero power and are strongly encouraged to just shuffle the kids through the system until the penal system takes them off their hands.

Just trying to explain the shift, my relatives actually teach in much less urban towns, it's a mess but you are aware of the impact of charges of racism against schools for disciplining blacks more than others right?
I only know a few people who are teachers. Vast majority of those I know who are teachers don't teach in the inner city. Most teach in the suburbs. For a few, it isn't violence in the classroom they deal with. It's kids who your typical disruptive types who get in trouble and the parents don't hold them accountable. It is them dealing with kids who don't do their work and they have to deal with an angry parent. Violence, however, is not something they've had to deal with day in and day out. In my case, my solution when it comes to inner city schools is simple. I won't teach there. I don't feel safe myself being there. I don't feel safe being in the trailer park areas either. That's a different story though.

I think about the suspension and expulsion issues. I spent middle school and high school in predominantly White schools. In my old middle school (which was about 90% White at the time), there were allegations of the principal punishing Black students more harshly for the same offenses as White kids. Part of that I could understand. I remember getting knocked to the ground by two White students (and I was on crutches when they did it). They got turned into the principal's office. They never got punished for it. The principal resigned later that year, and the new principal.

Because of when I remember going to school during the late 1990s into the early 2000s, I figured schools had no problem with expelling a bunch of Black kids for behaving badly. Then again, I went to school in the suburbs of the Atlanta metro area (more like the exurbs, Atlanta is a 50 minute drive from where I went to high school). I don't think the schools should curtail punishments on students. I want to make sure the punishments are fair and standard for everyone according to the situations. At the same time, I do think more punishment are needed. Maybe I know less because I haven't seen the inside of a public school classroom in 15 years, not to mention I don't have kids. I don't think I could raise kids these days. Schools were barely productive when I was a kid.

 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Suburb of Chicago
21,980 posts, read 10,578,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If this did take place in an inner city school, then it confirms what I've suspected all along. An inner city, underclass problem. If this took place in a decent, suburban school, then the bigoted types who flocked to this thread are going to have a field day.
How long have I been posting about the culture of poverty? There are a lot of similarities between white trailer trash and poor blacks in the city.

But this issue alone seems to be more prevalent among poor blacks than it does poor whites.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:20 PM
 
28,246 posts, read 19,675,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
perfect example of you ignoring racism in a thread, LOL
what ‘racism’ in the thread am i ignoring?
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:33 PM
 
13,685 posts, read 4,205,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I don't know anyone who is saying that it's racist to say that there is a subset within the Black population causing alot of mayhem. In fact, I'm pointing out that it's s subset of the Black population, and not the vast majority of Blacks, behaving like this. I'm pointing out that it's the underclass portion of the Black population doing this crap. What is racist are those persons who take the behavior of the underclass part of the black population and use it to complain about the entire Black population. It is those who say "Most Blacks are like that" that are racist. Individuals who use that video as an excuse to complain about the entire Black population. Those people I have a problem with, and they've made their presence known here.
Yeah but blacks also tend to do a higher rate of lot of other things short of criminal acts that annoy other people. It runs the gamut from discriminating against whites while constantly playing the race card and claim it's whites discriminating against them, poaching off white women, to making annoying racket. I never met a black person who didn't at least do one or more of those things, and I've known quite a few.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:34 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Great post, you hit on the crux of the issue.

US society for a few hundred years created a pigment based class system that left blacks more likely to be impoverished and as a result more likely to have poverty-linked problems. I cannot imagine any sane person denying this fact.

As such, blacks have more social issues but not because of their pigment but rather history.

So, this raises the painful to face situation where lessened punishment due to too many blacks being expelled etc. or in jail or not in engineering jobs etc. is clearly an attempt at remediation to correct past wrongs.

That creates an interesting dilemma because white racists can't admit that they helped cause most of the problem and some others can't admit that current practices are aimed at remediating those issues. Heck, I have a discussion in another thread where someone doesn't even want to concede that athletes have lower admission standards to colleges.
A simple U.S. history lesson shows how things have always been. It is a situation where class and race have meshed together. Historically, it has been Blacks who were far more likely to be born into impoverished circumstances and into situations where getting into the middle class is much harder. Things have changed for the better. There are more Black people in the middle class, Black people being college educated and going into the ranks of the professional class. At the same time, there is a large underclasss that still exists today. I also think about this.

I don't think being lenient on Black kids who keep misbehaving will do Black people any favors. In some cases, it hurts more than it will ever help. Many Black kids who want to learn, who want to do better, they need to be as far away from hood rat culture as possible. Having those hood rats in the classroom causing mayhem everyday isn't help. Some decent Black kids wind up giving in to the hood rat culture because they are just surrounded by it and feel it's the only way to fit in. We need to reach those who want to be helped and who want to do better. I think about a documentary Diane Sawyer did about a rough neighborhood in Philadelphia. One of the kids she interviewed was a Black girl living with her single father. Her father was getting onto her about her grades, and explained that he wanted her to have a better life that he had. I think about that, and how more kids need that kind of parenting. She also needs to be as far away from the undertow as possible. She and her father need to get away from there.

Funny you mention athletes having lower admission standards. I notice that the kids who get into some of the worst trouble never played sports. They never had the athletic ability to progress anywhere, and they didn't have the academic acumen to get into universities.

On one hand, many of the conditions that created the underclass within the Black population have been around for a long time. It comes from being considered "inferior" and being treated as such. And it really came to a head right after the abolition of slavery. Suddenly there were millions of Blacks who were free, and needed to do for themselves. At the same time, there were those who looked at the newly freed and saw them as competition. There never was a real plan for Black people to participate as full citizens in America. However, since Black people couldn't be deported, the Jim Crow laws came about in the South. And in the rest of the country, other forms of discrimination took place.

On the other hand, excusing and rewarding bad behavior is not going to do the underclass any favors. Many things have changed for the better with the end of Jim Crow, the passing of the Civil Rights Act, and things getting easier. Things have improved, but there are still many issues, many problems left over. Being lenient with trouble makers simply because of the things done to Blacks in the past isn't going to make things any better. Failure to recognize that it takes a strong, two-parent home to raise strong children does a disservice.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:43 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPowering1 View Post
How long have I been posting about the culture of poverty? There are a lot of similarities between white trailer trash and poor blacks in the city.

But this issue alone seems to be more prevalent among poor blacks than it does poor whites.
I've been posting things from Thomas Sowell's essay "Black Rednecks and White Liberals". I went to school with many white trailer trash kids/rednecks and some Black kids who fit the "hood rat" culture. I found out that there were housing projects 1 mile up from where I went to high school. I never knew this because my high school was built on an old Civil War battlefield (there's a plaque to comemorate it), and surrounded by cow pasture and trees. There were some Black kids in my high school who came from the projects (though not the majority). They weren't bused in. In the county I lived in, public housing could be obtained. My high school had white kids from the trailer parks and some Black kids living in public housing. I'm familiar with the similarities between redneck culture and hood rat culture. I got bullied and assaulted by kids who fit both cultures. One reason I tend to look at both cultures as being very similar.

I went to school with some poor Black kids, but I've been around quite a few violent White kids as well. Granted, none of them assaulted teachers, as far as I know. I know one kids who sold drugs in my old high school.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:45 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
Reputation: 15683
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Yeah but blacks also tend to do a higher rate of lot of other things short of criminal acts that annoy other people. It runs the gamut from discriminating against whites while constantly playing the race card and claim it's whites discriminating against them, poaching off white women, to making annoying racket. I never met a black person who didn't at least do one or more of those things, and I've known quite a few.
In my 33 years of living, I've met Black people who didn't do any of those things you describe. Sounds like you are the one with problems.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 03:52 PM
 
49,492 posts, read 46,314,812 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
And if it is a rehashed bit from a continuing school from 15 years ago?
If it is, then I wonder if those girls got arrested or not. But do you really think it came from 15 years ago?
 
Old 09-08-2019, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Lone Mountain Las Vegas NV
13,736 posts, read 5,251,721 times
Reputation: 6077
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If it is, then I wonder if those girls got arrested or not. But do you really think it came from 15 years ago?
No but I think it is phony. Low quality video no date stamps. Everything about it is vague. That, in my mind suggests a phony.
 
Old 09-08-2019, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Out West
23,381 posts, read 17,263,943 times
Reputation: 27119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
The students who want to learn in inner city schools would benefit so much if the troublemakers didn't have to go, and in fact were prohibited from stepping foot in the school.

As to what the troublemakers would do with their time, who cares? They are beyond the pale of society. Honestly they would probably get caught up in the drug trade and die young or go to prison.

I'm not optimistic that there's anything that could be done to improve them.
I agree. If someone doesn't want to be in school, then don't force them to be in school. The kids who want to be there will actually have a shot in hell without the whiny punks ruining it for everyone.

When they grow up and making nothing of themselves - no hand outs, and they don't get to p*$$ and moan that "the man" is keeping them down.

I'm sick of these useless piles of trash. And I'm more sick of their parents not doing anything about it.
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