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Old 09-09-2019, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,514 posts, read 4,281,978 times
Reputation: 4986

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
And I believe the next rebuttal will be "baby cries when you put baby in crib, therefore denial of consent, therefore aggression, therefore parenting invalid under NAP" or something along those lines.

And that will "prove" the NAP invalid entirely, or something.
Because something as simple as the non-aggression principle (which can be summed in three $0.30 words) is in truth so mind bogglingly complex it takes intellectual giants to comprehend.

Hey I can get on board with that.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,102 posts, read 2,831,492 times
Reputation: 2676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
No consent can't be assumed, no one has taken that position. I don't even know where you get that from.

Consent has 3 states, given, denied, indeterminate.

If consent is given, you have consent to do whatever was consented.

If consent is denied, you do not have consent to do whatever was denied, or anything else until.

Consent is indeterminate, you proceed at your own risk. That's not implied consent (unless you're a complete moron), it's you may proceed until the subject of your actions objects, at which time you should stop your action or you are violating the NAP.
No_Recess said that locking babies up is fine because they don't resist. That assumes consent. Even if its indeterminate what gives you the right to act?

Babies don't like taking baths or being locked up in cribs, what are you going to do about it?
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,514 posts, read 4,281,978 times
Reputation: 4986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
No_Recess said that locking babies up is fine because they don't resist. That assumes consent. Even if its indeterminate what gives you the right to act?

Babies don't like taking baths or being locked up in cribs, what are you going to do about it?
Can you quote the post?

Because I'm not reading that anywhere.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: SM
26,007 posts, read 10,027,050 times
Reputation: 10002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Can you quote the post?

Because I'm not reading that anywhere.
Don't let him proceed until he quotes it.
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Old 09-09-2019, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Rutherfordton,NC
15,249 posts, read 9,354,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
No child can consent to be born. Are there good and bad kinds of births?

It's widely accepted parents act in place of the child until an age of maturity, but this question is a bit different since the child's immature state wouldn't have existed had the parents not created the child.

Many servile human relationships involve "consenting adults" who are in desperate situations. Those "consenting adults" were at one time "non-consenting children". Do parents bear some blame for this?

How can one minimize coercion and also be a parent?
What the hell??
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Old 09-09-2019, 11:04 AM
 
3,353 posts, read 1,917,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
No child can consent to be born. Are there good and bad kinds of births?

It's widely accepted parents act in place of the child until an age of maturity, but this question is a bit different since the child's immature state wouldn't have existed had the parents not created the child.

Many servile human relationships involve "consenting adults" who are in desperate situations. Those "consenting adults" were at one time "non-consenting children". Do parents bear some blame for this?

How can one minimize coercion and also be a parent?

That's why I'm pro-choice. The child never has a say. At least in this instance the mother can have a say.


If the child is wanted though the more likely they are to agree with the decision at least.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
That's called life, and you're free to choose to exit any time you wish.

No not really. Sometimes never being born is better than having to contemplate suicide especially if one has thanatopobia.
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Old 09-09-2019, 02:04 PM
 
Location: SM
26,007 posts, read 10,027,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDriver View Post
Not all libertarians are anarchists or "anarcho-capitalists".

But this shows why the strict "nonaggression" arguments are absurd - the only way to practice strict non-aggression would be to live like a Trappist monk, and even then it would be impossible - if you speak to someone in a public place, you create sound waves which "aggress" upon a person's ear drums without consent, and so forth.
Mens rea, actus rea...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8E7_u2qgjE
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:19 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,102 posts, read 2,831,492 times
Reputation: 2676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Can you quote the post?

Because I'm not reading that anywhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
That's terrible.

Did you communicate your desire to not be forcibly locked into a cage to the alleged perps?
Unless you communicate denial anything can be done onto you by this logic.

Last edited by Winterfall8324; 09-09-2019 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:35 PM
 
8,221 posts, read 5,197,519 times
Reputation: 13986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick View Post
Sometimes never being born is better than having to contemplate suicide especially if one has thanatopobia.
Phobias aside, attempt to undo something that's already been done, is starkly different from not having done it in the first place. Here we are, alive, owing to events of which we had no cognizance and no volitional involvement. We may go on to live fascinating lives, or great contribution, pleasure and excitement. Or we may not. Regardless, we got here without signing any sort of social contract. We just appeared, and for the first few years of our lives, other people (namely, our parents) were directly responsible for us remaining alive. This may be a good thing, or a bad one... but we had no choice in the matter. And some of us are bothered by that.
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Old 09-09-2019, 03:46 PM
 
Location: SM
26,007 posts, read 10,027,050 times
Reputation: 10002
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Unless you communicate desire not to be anything can be done onto you by this logic.
Swing and a miss.

Going to try again?
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