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Old 09-08-2019, 01:41 AM
 
1,954 posts, read 650,214 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
An individual can give charity to any other individual.
Such as a charitable smack to the head when the individual won't stop crying?
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Old 09-08-2019, 03:23 AM
 
Location: Itinerant
6,494 posts, read 4,276,887 times
Reputation: 4978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
The transition from non-entity to entity seems ambiguously defined (birth or the age of consent?) and also needlessly stark. Can you be a half-entity somewhere in the middle, capable of some reasoning and also not fully free? That's how our bodies develop so I don't see the use for a brightline distinction.
Of course the transition is ambiguously defined, there are people on this forum that cannot properly form a reasoned and rational opinion and they've reached retirement age.

In my opinion the child is it's own entity from biologically self-sustaining onwards, its parents exercise its rights until it is capable of asserting them itself. The parents hold responsibility of exercising their child's rights solely and exclusively in the best interests of the child, not them as a pair, or multitude, or individually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
I'm also considering the suffering endured by the child.

The pain of abortion is short and may not even be sensed at early stages.

The pain of living with brain damage may last years until death.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked. It's also irrelevant to my statement. We remove parasites from people all the time.

How do you know living with brain damage is painful? You know the brain has no pain receptors. By what measure do you reach this conclusion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
And the brain damage example is good because it may cause the child to never reach maturity. In this way the person can never consent because they don't even understand what the choices are or entail.
It's actually a non-sequitur in regards to your original post. Nor does your strawman stand up to real scrutiny. There are millions of people who have some form of CNS injury or disability that are totally capable of deciding their own choices, certainly at least as capable as anyone else. That said see paragraph 2 above

"its parents exercise its rights until it is capable of asserting them itself"

What's the issue with that?
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Old 09-08-2019, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,060 posts, read 2,818,325 times
Reputation: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gungnir View Post
Of course the transition is ambiguously defined, there are people on this forum that cannot properly form a reasoned and rational opinion and they've reached retirement age.

In my opinion the child is it's own entity from biologically self-sustaining onwards, its parents exercise its rights until it is capable of asserting them itself. The parents hold responsibility of exercising their child's rights solely and exclusively in the best interests of the child, not them as a pair, or multitude, or individually.



Which has absolutely nothing to do with the question asked. It's also irrelevant to my statement. We remove parasites from people all the time.

How do you know living with brain damage is painful? You know the brain has no pain receptors. By what measure do you reach this conclusion?



It's actually a non-sequitur in regards to your original post. Nor does your strawman stand up to real scrutiny. There are millions of people who have some form of CNS injury or disability that are totally capable of deciding their own choices, certainly at least as capable as anyone else. That said see paragraph 2 above

"its parents exercise its rights until it is capable of asserting them itself"

What's the issue with that?
When is it capable of asserting itself? What does that even mean?

When they can talk? When they can walk? What arbitrary means do you use to withhold their natural rights and why is the privilege of consent not applied here.

No_Recess said it was at birth, in which case how can a human baby who can't talk consent to parental control. Maybe the baby doesn't want to be picked up, or locked in a crib. How is this not aggression?

And if you say it comes at a later stage, who decides? The entire philosophy behind the NAP and individual rights supersedes policy and human intervention according to you; so at what age is a human free, and how can they assert this new found privilege. If parents ground a thirteen year old does that make them morally culpable? Can the kid break their property (door, window) to get out? Is the authority of the parent only permissible on the property they own?
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:23 AM
 
Location: SM
25,930 posts, read 10,001,595 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Such as a charitable smack to the head when the individual won't stop crying?
Uh, what?

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Old 09-08-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: SM
25,930 posts, read 10,001,595 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
With consent. Which the child has not given.

ex: lifting the child up without its consent.
Another "Uh, wat?"



What in the world are you people talking about it?
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,060 posts, read 2,818,325 times
Reputation: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
Another "Uh, wat?"



What in the world are you people talking about it?
do you have kids?
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Lakeside, CA
183 posts, read 15,325 times
Reputation: 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
No child can consent to be born. Are there good and bad kinds of births?

It's widely accepted parents act in place of the child until an age of maturity, but this question is a bit different since the child's immature state wouldn't have existed had the parents not created the child.

Many servile human relationships involve "consenting adults" who are in desperate situations. Those "consenting adults" were at one time "non-consenting children". Do parents bear some blame for this?

How can one minimize coercion and also be a parent?
Not wasting my time on this weird BS.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:35 AM
 
Location: SM
25,930 posts, read 10,001,595 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
do you have kids?
You pick. Then start your spiel.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:36 AM
 
Location: SM
25,930 posts, read 10,001,595 times
Reputation: 9982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody01 View Post
Not wasting my time on this weird BS.
It's my fault. I played along in the beginning.

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Old 09-08-2019, 11:51 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,060 posts, read 2,818,325 times
Reputation: 2668
Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
You pick. Then start your spiel.
Now its my turn to be completely confused. I only ever ask questions with the purest of intentions.

Its simple, if a baby does not consent how can a parent lock them in a crib, lift them up, or bath them without violating their autonomous rights?
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