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Old 09-08-2019, 11:13 AM
 
5,328 posts, read 5,190,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
China is waiting, hoping, and praying one of the dems can beat Trump (not likely).

Meanwhile, China is taking a beating as they experience the worst economic numbers they're had in decades, and companies beginning to move out.

Our trade war with China is a win, win for us, we either get a new deal that resolve serious issues, or the supply chain continues to move out of China (the better option for us in the long term).
Trump trade war is all about keeping outsourcing cheap and risk free for American corporations. How does that benefit an average trump voter? China rightfully insists on getting something other than meager wages for its peons slaving in the sweatshops serving US markets. Trump wants them to stay in those sweatshops forever. A no go proposition.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,423 posts, read 2,922,624 times
Reputation: 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post
Countries that have no ethics always have a bigger playing field plane and simple.
America is not an ethical player.

The difference between American and Iran/Russia/China is that we control the world system. The financial system, global trade routes, and monetary value. We want stability and control because it is our system.

Iran and Russia are on the outs so they are more prone to support chaos and destabilize traditional military and economic structures. If positions were switched we would be the aggressors and Russia would be the 'good guys'.

And don't kid yourself about spreading 'democracy'. Democracy to Americans is about opening markets to investment, that is all.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:31 AM
 
Location: United States
11,348 posts, read 5,247,301 times
Reputation: 5467
Quote:
Originally Posted by RememberMee View Post
Trump trade war is all about keeping outsourcing cheap and risk free for American corporations. How does that benefit an average trump voter? China rightfully insists on getting something other than meager wages for its peons slaving in the sweatshops serving US markets. Trump wants them to stay in those sweatshops forever. A no go proposition.
I don't even know how to respond to that.

Maybe you should educate yourself on what this is all about.

Look up the trade deficit with China, trade barriers, intellectual property theft, and forced technology transfers.

You can thank me later.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,423 posts, read 2,922,624 times
Reputation: 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I don't even know how to respond to that.

Maybe you should educate yourself on what this is all about.

Look up the trade deficit with China, trade barriers, intellectual property theft, and forced technology transfers.

You can thank me later.
If China stops these things than outsourcing will increase.

I hope Trump never removes the tariffs.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:51 AM
 
824 posts, read 531,434 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
America is not an ethical player.

The difference between American and Iran/Russia/China is that we control the world system. The financial system, global trade routes, and monetary value. We want stability and control because it is our system.

Iran and Russia are on the outs so they are more prone to support chaos and destabilize traditional military and economic structures. If positions were switched we would be the aggressors and Russia would be the 'good guys'.

And don't kid yourself about spreading 'democracy'. Democracy to Americans is about opening markets to investment, that is all.

There's some truth to that but on the face of things govt claims to be ethical. We are a more civilized society there's no denying that ie.. labor laws, constitution,NATO laws.


China,Russia,and Iran among others see past our rhetoric and are playing chicken to see how we react obviously.

Our "system" is ripe for the taking in a military conflict with the above three and this is what scares me. Our economy is being propped up with a false narrative of bs employment numbers and fake buy back stock reports by a failed businessman who's claimed bankruptcy what 4x?

While we have pretty much bastardized the notion of democracy we need to give a little to get a little in this new era.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,423 posts, read 2,922,624 times
Reputation: 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post
There's some truth to that but on the face of things govt claims to be ethical. We are a more civilized society there's no denying that ie.. labor laws, constitution,NATO laws.


China,Russia,and Iran among others see past our rhetoric and are playing chicken to see how we react obviously.

Our "system" is ripe for the taking in a military conflict with the above three and this is what scares me. Our economy is being propped up with a false narrative of bs employment numbers and fake buy back stock reports by a failed businessman who's claimed bankruptcy what 4x?

While we have pretty much bastardized the notion of democracy we need to give a little to get a little in this new era.
Read the rest of my post, America supports peace and stability (most of the time) because it is our system, we are in control.

If a king rules a country, they want to keep stability. If an upstart wants to overthrow the king, they will create chaos.

One is not bad and the other is not good because one is an agent of peace and the other is an agent of chaos.

The biggest problem is that America tries to frame their support for democracy as an act of altruism when its just about opening markets and increasing strategic power.

Its hilarious to think our country spends billion of dollars to protect global democracy out of altruism. And yet grown adults in this country buy into it.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:04 PM
 
824 posts, read 531,434 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
I don't even know how to respond to that.

Maybe you should educate yourself on what this is all about.

Look up the trade deficit with China, trade barriers, intellectual property theft, and forced technology transfers.

You can thank me later.

How can we expect a communist country to play fair when we build factories on their land and bounce them to the next lowest bidder (Vietnam,India,Brazil)? Are we to expect a communist country to keep these factories empty? There are no international patent laws. Does that make it right? No.. but how many corporate lawsuits does it take to see the writing on the wall? We're yanking the tail of the dragon we created .....and she's got wings. Our biggest asset is USD but dare I ask what happens to USD confidence when no one wants to or can afford to buy our treasury bonds?

China has a lot of dark money, big printing presses, and no sympathy for its people. This isn't a war we can win, only settle imo.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:07 PM
 
824 posts, read 531,434 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Read the rest of my post, America supports peace and stability (most of the time) because it is our system, we are in control.

If a king rules a country, they want to keep stability. If an upstart wants to overthrow the king, they will create chaos.

One is not bad and the other is not good because one is an agent of peace and the other is an agent of chaos.

The biggest problem is that America tries to frame their support for democracy as an act of altruism when its just about opening markets and increasing strategic power.

Its hilarious to think our country spends billion of dollars to protect global democracy out of altruism. And yet grown adults in this country buy into it.

Haha I think we agree on quite a few things. I understand this countries dynamics and what feeds it.
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Old 09-08-2019, 12:58 PM
 
13,212 posts, read 4,852,540 times
Reputation: 5419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterfall8324 View Post
Read the rest of my post, America supports peace and stability (most of the time) because it is our system, we are in control.

If a king rules a country, they want to keep stability. If an upstart wants to overthrow the king, they will create chaos.

One is not bad and the other is not good because one is an agent of peace and the other is an agent of chaos.

The biggest problem is that America tries to frame their support for democracy as an act of altruism when its just about opening markets and increasing strategic power.

Its hilarious to think our country spends billion of dollars to protect global democracy out of altruism. And yet grown adults in this country buy into it.
Largely correct, but you also seem to believe in the "stability" rhetoric though.

Stability is code word strategists use for obedience. Obedience is what's important, not stability.
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Old 09-08-2019, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Manchester NH
10,423 posts, read 2,922,624 times
Reputation: 2776
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
You also seem to believe in the "stability" rhetoric though.

Stability is code word strategists use for obedience. Obedience is what's important, not stability.
Stability means a lot of things. Mostly it means a place that can be easily managed and controlled.

A lot of humanitarians like Imperialism because it can end violence, bring investment, and create a docile population that on paper at least is better than what came before.

I'm not an imperialist, and I get the difference between obedience and stability. But people like you and I should be careful in how we phrase it.

I personally hate our foriegn policy and economic system.
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