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Old 09-08-2019, 02:57 PM
 
10,083 posts, read 2,481,651 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
How can corporations protect themselves? All a Chinese company has to do is buy an example of the product, reverse engineer, and done, they win. No way for an honest business in the USA to compete like that.
Everyone reverse engineers. American companies do that all of the time.

The issue is American companies would send the actual plans to Chinese companies and tell them "here, build this", and of course they would.

Anyway, we are twenty years behind on this now. American companies have left the barn door open and all of the horses are out.

Now the situation has reversed itself for the most part: Chinese companies are designing products and pitching them to foreign companies to sell under their (American) brand names. Korean companies are doing the same.

You or I could buy an American branded product, knowing full well that it was made in Asia somewhere, but not realizing that Americans did not even design it nor even hold the most important patents on it. That train has left the station. China is beating us in the STEM fields. They graduate more engineers every year than we do, and in their home country their graduates will work for far less than ours can afford to.
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Old 09-08-2019, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Unperson Everyman Land
30,833 posts, read 20,346,096 times
Reputation: 8563
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post
Reverse engineering has been going on a long time and is what drives the evolution of products/companies. It's a dog eat dog world.


China's people are not taken into consideration Xi has already issued statements stating to get ready for a downturn and tougher times along with fighting against the American bullies for what's right. These people are not rational they're hardline gangsters that smile in your face. Same could be said for Donald but we all know he lacks the tact,etiquette, etc.. He's already the laughing stock to the whole world. Have you guys seen his latest tweets and getting caught up in sharpies at 12:00 am? Total disaster for foreign relations.
And yet he keeps winning!
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Old 09-08-2019, 07:16 PM
 
Location: United States
11,144 posts, read 5,179,366 times
Reputation: 5362
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post
Reverse engineering has been going on a long time and is what drives the evolution of products/companies. It's a dog eat dog world.


China's people are not taken into consideration Xi has already issued statements stating to get ready for a downturn and tougher times along with fighting against the American bullies for what's right. These people are not rational they're hardline gangsters that smile in your face. Same could be said for Donald but we all know he lacks the tact,etiquette, etc.. He's already the laughing stock to the whole world. Have you guys seen his latest tweets and getting caught up in sharpies at 12:00 am? Total disaster for foreign relations.

China isn't laughing...


China’s exports to the US are falling sharply as Trump escalates the trade war


Among its major trade partners, China’s August exports to the United States fell 16% year-on-year, slowing sharply from a decline of 6.5% in July.

Many analysts expect export growth to slow further in coming months, as evidenced by worsening export orders in both official and private factory surveys. More U.S. tariff measures will take effect on Oct. 1 and Dec. 15
.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/08/chin...r&par=sharebar



The real threat to China, and why the US can't lose this trade war, it's a win, win for us.


Given the timing of the change in tone, it seems more likely that what’s making the difference is a realization on both sides that there’s another way this trade war could end – and that possible ending is one the U.S. is very unlikely to lose.

The decoupling push is quite different than any U.S. efforts to get China to open up more of its economy to American companies. Instead, it focuses on reducing America’s extremely heavy reliance on China for so much of its manufacturing needs.

Thanks to some major news about Google, the world got its clearest notice yet that U.S.-China decoupling has gone from just a theory to something that’s really happening.

It’s not that Google is the first U.S.-based company to announce some shift away from China; more than 50 other big names have moved out or scaled back. But the timing of Google’s reported plans and how they seem to have affected Beijing can’t be ignored.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/06/tari...trade-war.html
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:04 PM
Status: "I need a hug~shrugs" (set 28 days ago)
 
Location: I'm out searching for me... If you see me, let me know... ;--)
3,366 posts, read 1,863,586 times
Reputation: 7496
Thank you to all that have contributed to this thread.

I've been reading/ listening and appreciating the different point of views.
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Old Yesterday, 01:08 PM
 
12,157 posts, read 5,821,773 times
Reputation: 7138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Business Insider is a good publication.

The article makes a good point. Trump wants China to buy more American goods but that assumes China is a command economy (which happens to reflect a false narrative circulating among Trumpie types). We (the USA) have been encouraging China to be a market economy since Richard Nixon visited Máozédōng. In the 1980's they began to move in that direction, opening up all of their industries to competition and free markets.

We can not demand that China buy more American made goods any more than they can demand the USA buy more Chinese goods. We don't have a government which can command private companies in that way and the Chinese are following that model as well, so it can not be negotiated. In our demands we are insisting the Chinese return to a 1950's style command economy, and they are not going to do so just because we insist upon it now.

On another note: Intellectual property theft, and patent and trademark infringements are valid complaints, but we are sadly not handling that set of issues very well. American companies should know by now that China is very swampy and justice is hard to find in Chinese courts, so they have only themselves to blame for exposing their trade secrets to Chinese partners. Anyone doing business in that way with Chinese companies today is making a Faustian Bargain.
Business Insider WAS a "good publication ...... until is was purchased by a German Media Corporation and turned over to a new Editor - Henry Blodget.

Henry is a real peach - Business Insider's CEO and Editor-In-Chief Henry Blodget is a Yale history graduate who previously worked on Wall Street until he was banned for life from the securities industry because of his violations of securities laws and subsequent civil trial, which ended with a $2 million fine plus a $2 million disgorgement and the permanent ban in 2003.

I occasionally read it - but certainly would never depend (or bet my money) on anything they print.

Donald Trump doesn't care about China buying more from the USA -- he cares about the unfair Trade Imbalance, the theft of Intellectual Property which occurs not because of reverse engineering, but because anyone who does business in China is forced to partner with a Chinese firm and turn over to that firm ALL the intellectual property .... which goes first to the Chinese Military to see if they can use it for anything.

China has a lot of problems - 2 of them will force them to the bargaining table. Food and Employment due to a slowing economy. I pulled my money out of China in late 2018.

According to a report by the World Bank, China's total food demand is expected to reach 670 million tons in 2020 and 700 million tons in 2030. Even if China could maintain a record high of 620 million tons, the gap would still be large. ... As the trade war escalates, a food shortage crisis will surface.”Sep 13, 2018.
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Old Yesterday, 01:31 PM
 
12,157 posts, read 5,821,773 times
Reputation: 7138
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorCal77 View Post
I think you need to reread my intent.


If you think big S&P companies are moving from China you're mistaken. It will take years for them to move and rebuild.. and doing it when quarterly numbers are on the decline if not looking down a cliff? Forget about it. Lol Trump talks about them coming back to America ha.. how is that 20x wage increase going to effect the bottom line? Trumps campaigning to the ill informed. Hopefully you guys get your q-tips out this next year.

For the record I know how well we have it here I'm just outlining we're pissing on the back of the dragon we fed. Business has no loyalty and that's what makes the world go round.
Everyone is allowed to have their own opinion ... but the FACTS don't agree with your opinion.

More than 50 companies reportedly pull production out of China due to trade war |CNBC - July 2019
American personal computer makers HP and Dell could move up to 30% of their notebook production in China to Southeast Asia, according to Nikkei. The pace of companies moving production out of China is accelerating as more than 50 multinationals from Apple to Nintendo to Dell are rushing to escape the punitive tariffs placed by the U.S., according to the Nikkei Asian review.

Not only are foreign companies rethinking its production location, a handful of Chinese companies are also leaving China. Chinese multinational electronics company TCL is moving its TV production to Vietnam, while Chinese tire maker Sailun Tire is transitioning its manufacturing line to Thailand, Nikkei reported.


More U.S. Companies Seen Leaving China After September |Forbes August 2019
For a long time, China has been the world's low cost, low regulation, manufacturer of choice. Even though multinationals would like to keep it that way, some 40% of U.S. companies are relocating at least some of their supply out of China, according to a May 2019 AmCham Shanghai survey.

This is not the entire picture - there is a Global Economy and the USA is funding a lot of it. When China is pinched, they stop buying from their biggest seller .... Germany. That's hurts Germany and the entire EU, since Germany controls the EU. Add to that - China is devaluing their money and pulling back restrictions on Bank Reserves in hopes of opening up more credit with lower interest loans.

It's foolish to say that the Dragon is not in stress. Trump is correct -- somebody had to step up and correct the Trade Imbalance that has been bleeding us dry. No Politician was ever going to do it.
He knew he had to super-charge the US Economy before he tackled to biggest Trading partners who were taking us to the cleaners -- China & the EU.
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Old Yesterday, 01:48 PM
 
4,783 posts, read 3,682,592 times
Reputation: 7443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
Business Insider is a good publication.

The article makes a good point. Trump wants China to buy more American goods but that assumes China is a command economy (which happens to reflect a false narrative circulating among Trumpie types). We (the USA) have been encouraging China to be a market economy since Richard Nixon visited Máozédōng. In the 1980's they began to move in that direction, opening up all of their industries to competition and free markets.

We can not demand that China buy more American made goods any more than they can demand the USA buy more Chinese goods. We don't have a government which can command private companies in that way and the Chinese are following that model as well, so it can not be negotiated. In our demands we are insisting the Chinese return to a 1950's style command economy, and they are not going to do so just because we insist upon it now.

On another note: Intellectual property theft, and patent and trademark infringements are valid complaints, but we are sadly not handling that set of issues very well. American companies should know by now that China is very swampy and justice is hard to find in Chinese courts, so they have only themselves to blame for exposing their trade secrets to Chinese partners. Anyone doing business in that way with Chinese companies today is making a Faustian Bargain.
Exactly. It’s not like anyone is putting a gun to the heads if any American firm doing business in china. . They want the profit from 1.4 billion people, then they pay the price. No one is forcing them to china. What ever happened to the famous republican ideal of individual choice and not asking government to help you?
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