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Old Yesterday, 09:05 PM
 
8,986 posts, read 4,852,432 times
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This ^^^^
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,031 posts, read 22,441,715 times
Reputation: 9225
Quote:
Originally Posted by workingclasshero View Post
not only that...

but

he like the rest of the far left (and adding UBI to MFA IS far left) can not explain where all the magic money to pay for all these plans will come from

UBI will cost ~2.5 trillion per year
MFA will cost 4.1 trillion per year

just where are we (the USA) going to to find an additional 6.6 trillion in revenue YEARLY (and increasing yearly too)


a VAT would be lucky to raise 1 trillion...his UBI will cost 2.5 trillion plus
Well when you consider the fact that all forms of money have value only in your imagination, at some point enough people will cease caring about ensuring money is artificially scarce.
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Old Yesterday, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,080 posts, read 2,322,454 times
Reputation: 2711
I have my doubts about UBI, but I definitely see it's potential and is one of the better solutions to automation besides banning automation altogether which opens an entirely different can of worms.

The way I see it there will be a happy medium that companies will have to meet, on the one hand they want to cut down costs, i.e. automations, but if to many jobs and services become automated there will not be enough customers to drive their profit margins.

It kind of goes back to Henry Ford's philosophy/experiment where he gave his employees high wages so that they could buy his model Ts and prop up his company.

So in a world of automation where the majority of people don't earn enough to be consumers, the companies will have to agree to pool their money together hand it out to people and pay them to become consumers and then they compete amongst each other and try to recover as much as possible from that pool of money.

However I would imagine that getting paid to be a materialist consumer will not be so great psychologically on the individual nor society at large.
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Old Yesterday, 11:54 PM
 
10,012 posts, read 10,312,703 times
Reputation: 5356
Quote:
Originally Posted by beb0p View Post
Only people 18 or older would get the UBI..
BTW that doesn't seem fair. You would give a 19 year old healthy young man with an education $1000 a month, but a single mother of four would also get $1000 a month.


In any case that only slightly changes the results. If 24% of the population is under 18 that means:

Instead of saying federal government revenue from all sources is
$841.91 per month per individual, you would say it is
$1107.78 per month per individual over the age of 18.

You are still talking about giving back $1000 out of $1108 collected. Don't forget the government is already spending more than their revenue.

Unless you radically raise revenue, you would have to retire the military and the police.
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Old Today, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,405 posts, read 1,357,850 times
Reputation: 1161
I have no problem, whatsoever, with a universal basic income... as long as the recipient of that UBI earned that money via their own efforts, their labor or intellect which people were willing to pay them in exchange for that labor or intellect.

Call it UBI, call it what ever you want. I call it working and earning your own.

Now, if you are talking about people being paid to stay at home and leech off the labor and intellect of others... this is something I oppose.


But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
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Old Today, 12:23 AM
 
13,600 posts, read 4,115,105 times
Reputation: 4039
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS_Referee View Post
I have no problem, whatsoever, with a universal basic income... as long as the recipient of that UBI earned that money via their own efforts, their labor or intellect which people were willing to pay them in exchange for that labor or intellect.

Call it UBI, call it what ever you want. I call it working and earning your own.

Now, if you are talking about people being paid to stay at home and leech off the labor and intellect of others... this is something I oppose.


But then again, that's just MY opinion, for what it's worth.
I'm in basic agreement that money should be earned by one's own effort and labor, but don't the wealthy often' collect off of others efforts, intellect and labor? I'm not saying they shouldn't at all, but it can be excessive.
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Old Today, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Planet earth
3,405 posts, read 1,357,850 times
Reputation: 1161
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
I'm in basic agreement that money should be earned by one's own effort and labor, but don't the wealthy often' collect off of others efforts, intellect and labor? I'm not saying they shouldn't at all, but it can be excessive.

Whose money was risked? Who took the chance to start a business, knowing full well they could easily lose everything?

If someone who works for another wants to make more, they should risk their own money. They should work 80+ hours when they start their business, just to keep it afloat.

You people, those who want the big payout without any of the risk or sacrifice make me sick because there is absolutely NOTHING preventing you or others from doing the same.
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Old Today, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Springfield, Ohio
12,267 posts, read 10,564,407 times
Reputation: 11298
Automation is not going anywhere, and in order for capitalism to prosper, it must be a give and take situation. Corporations will not benefit if there are no longer any consumers to buy their product, so it will be beneficial to both parties. I don't think Amazon and Google will mind paying taxes if it means their advertising and sales dollars keep rolling in.
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Old Today, 02:52 AM
Status: "Now That's What I'm Talking About!" (set 3 days ago)
 
100 posts, read 7,593 times
Reputation: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacoMartin View Post
BTW that doesn't seem fair. You would give a 19 year old healthy young man with an education $1000 a month, but a single mother of four would also get $1000 a month.


In any case that only slightly changes the results. If 24% of the population is under 18 that means:

Instead of saying federal government revenue from all sources is
$841.91 per month per individual, you would say it is
$1107.78 per month per individual over the age of 18.

You are still talking about giving back $1000 out of $1108 collected. Don't forget the government is already spending more than their revenue.

Unless you radically raise revenue, you would have to retire the military and the police.
The US takes in $7 Trillion annually.

I would rather have you spend $1000 locally buying your ideal version of crap because that is what we are talking about, domestic spending in the most literal sense of the phrase.

Do we keep that money here in our communities or do we let is escape into the ethersphere. Either way its going to be spent.

Either we benefit from it or we don't. There is no middle ground.

How does an offshore numbered account benefit you?
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Old Today, 06:20 AM
 
2,154 posts, read 3,907,677 times
Reputation: 2626
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
TBut also many other currently costly federal programs could end and be supplanted by the UBI.
Can you list the programs that could be ended?
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