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Old 09-10-2019, 10:07 AM
 
17,398 posts, read 4,608,702 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The founder of FDLS is serving a life sentence. So we do enforce the law here. My complaint is the failure of governments to enforce the law in certain other enclaves.
So your claim is that if we can point to a couple (or few) cases where millions of dollars and years of public pressure brought down a person, that means we "enforce the law"? Equally?

Who protected the 10's of thousands abused by the Catholic hierarchy? How many are in jail? Has the consortium been broken up or accused of violation of the RICO act?

"We enforce the law" seems like a cop-out. The correct statement is "I can point out a tiny minority of cases where law has been brought to bear and that satisfies me".
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,783 posts, read 6,644,916 times
Reputation: 12919
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
First of all, it should be noted, this book is about a young girl raised in England, not in the USA. Secondly, the restrictions put on women are the legacy of patriarchal culture.
The U.K.'s culture may be snobbish but it's not patriarchal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The saddest thing is that women raised in these cultures are raised to believe in these restrictions against women. They believe that men have better judgment than women, and that women need to be controlled. They see women that defy the restrictions as women that have been misled, women who are straying from what is moral and right. And so women become complicit in the abuse against women.
The mistreatment is based upon what the man needs, and not what the woman needs or wants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
This is true in subcultures in the West that are patriarchal in nature, whether that subculture is an Islam community in England, or an FDLS community in the United States.
Aside maybe from FDLS, and of course Islam, defiance may be uncomfortable but not lethal.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:17 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,783 posts, read 6,644,916 times
Reputation: 12919
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
So your claim is that if we can point to a couple (or few) cases where millions of dollars and years of public pressure brought down a person, that means we "enforce the law"? Equally?

Who protected the 10's of thousands abused by the Catholic hierarchy? How many are in jail? Has the consortium been broken up or accused of violation of the RICO act?

"We enforce the law" seems like a cop-out. The correct statement is "I can point out a tiny minority of cases where law has been brought to bear and that satisfies me".
Now that the abuse is known enforcement has begun. I can't help it that victims don't speak out in countries and settings where speaking out won't get them killed.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:18 AM
 
13,685 posts, read 4,213,772 times
Reputation: 4093
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Because “ real citizens” have never lied, cheated, stole, raped, tortured or murdered?
That's a strawman argument. We're not talking about crime rates, but non-western, anti-Western counter culture.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:11 AM
 
40,438 posts, read 24,760,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
The U.K.'s culture may be snobbish but it's not patriarchal.
The mistreatment is based upon what the man needs, and not what the woman needs or wants.
Aside maybe from FDLS, and of course Islam, defiance may be uncomfortable but not lethal.
The UK's culture is patriarchal. They may be progressing, but I would point out to you that they had to change a law just recently so that Princess Charlotte would be next-in-line behind her older brother rather than behind all male heirs in the line-up for the throne. And of course the Pakistani Imam was from a very much patriarchal society. The mistreatment is based on the idea that women are not equal to men. And defiance of social norms is always uncomfortable, and can be potentially lethal anywhere.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:33 AM
 
13,685 posts, read 4,213,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The UK's culture is patriarchal. They may be progressing, but I would point out to you that they had to change a law just recently so that Princess Charlotte would be next-in-line behind her older brother rather than behind all male heirs in the line-up for the throne. And of course the Pakistani Imam was from a very much patriarchal society. The mistreatment is based on the idea that women are not equal to men. And defiance of social norms is always uncomfortable, and can be potentially lethal anywhere.
Good, it needs to be more patriarchal like it was when the UK was greater. Matriarchy causes the collapse of a culture. Not all patriarchal cultures and societies are the same and equal.
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:54 AM
 
40,438 posts, read 24,760,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Good, it needs to be more patriarchal like it was when the UK was greater. Matriarchy causes the collapse of a culture. Not all patriarchal cultures and societies are the same and equal.
Actually every culture is different. Culture is a distinguishing characteristic. But patriarchal systems are not kind to women. And while I am opposed to matriarchy because I support equality, I must say that matriarchy does not cause the collapse of a culture.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:01 PM
 
13,685 posts, read 4,213,772 times
Reputation: 4093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Actually every culture is different. Culture is a distinguishing characteristic. But patriarchal systems are not kind to women. And while I am opposed to matriarchy because I support equality, I must say that matriarchy does not cause the collapse of a culture.
Well increasing matriarchy and decreasing patriarchy does and is associated with decline in the West. It's not the female role or capability to defend and maintain a culture. The West has always been plenty kind maybe too kind to women vs men in my view.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:16 PM
 
40,438 posts, read 24,760,007 times
Reputation: 12847
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtl1 View Post
Well increasing matriarchy and decreasing patriarchy does and is associated with decline in the West. It's not the female role or capability to defend and maintain a culture. The West has always been plenty kind maybe too kind to women vs men in my view.
Men and women are equals. Women are very capable to defend and maintain a culture. Your viewpoint notwithstanding, patriarchies are not kind to women. Women do not need to be controlled. It may make life easier for men if they control women, and you may value that, but that's not kind to women.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:40 PM
 
13,685 posts, read 4,213,772 times
Reputation: 4093
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
Men and women are equals. Women are very capable to defend and maintain a culture. Your viewpoint notwithstanding, patriarchies are not kind to women. Women do not need to be controlled. It may make life easier for men if they control women, and you may value that, but that's not kind to women.
Men and women are not identicals though. Being treated identically is inequality. Western patriarchies are more kind and fair to women than matriarchy is fair and kind to men. Women are not capable and in the majority will not and do not maintain a culture. That's a male role from the very beginning.
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