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Old 09-12-2019, 04:29 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,522,540 times
Reputation: 8679

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Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
USDA ERS work includes analyzing questions like the effectiveness of public food assistance programs and the impact of climate change on food supply. ERS findings should not be compromised by political interference. Historically, it's been led by a career senior executive service administrator. Earlier this year, the Trump Administration moved the agency under the direct oversight of a political appointee.

Now this. Wonder what impact getting the majority to quit and moving across the country to start again with new employees totally unfamiliar with sometimes key institutional knowledge will have? In a Civil Service that is designed to be politically independent whose first obligation is to the public not an Administration, this is one way of shaping possibly pesky research conclusions. Like, for example, their finding that Trump's tax cut will largely benefit the wealthiest farmers.

After all, how could Congress object to their dismantling - oops, relocation? The Administration says that it will save money.



And look which 547 people it impacted.



There is also the institution called Congress. Trump may think that the sole purpose of Executive Branch agencies (like Justice and the Attorney General) is to personally do his bidding but it really doesn't work that way. On politically important issues they provide guidance and assistance to Congress. Trying to get an employee in from Kansas City for a quick briefing just isn't the same as a cab ride down Independence Avenue. There's a reason most countries tend to have capital cities.
Why should the USDA be any different then ALL the other fed agencies?


Your "explanation" can be applied to EVERY fed agency.
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:31 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,522,540 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
USDA ERS work includes analyzing questions like the effectiveness of public food assistance programs and the impact of climate change on food supply. ERS findings should not be compromised by political interference. Historically, it's been led by a career senior executive service administrator. Earlier this year, the Trump Administration moved the agency under the direct oversight of a political appointee.

Now this. Wonder what impact getting the majority to quit and moving across the country to start again with new employees totally unfamiliar with sometimes key institutional knowledge will have? In a Civil Service that is designed to be politically independent whose first obligation is to the public not an Administration, this is one way of shaping possibly pesky research conclusions. Like, for example, their finding that Trump's tax cut will largely benefit the wealthiest farmers.

After all, how could Congress object to their dismantling - oops, relocation? The Administration says that it will save money.



And look which 547 people it impacted.



There is also the institution called Congress. Trump may think that the sole purpose of Executive Branch agencies (like Justice and the Attorney General) is to personally do his bidding but it really doesn't work that way. On politically important issues they provide guidance and assistance to Congress. Trying to get an employee in from Kansas City for a quick briefing just isn't the same as a cab ride down Independence Avenue. There's a reason most countries tend to have capital cities.
" the sole purpose of Executive Branch agencies (like Justice and the Attorney General) is to personally do his bidding but it really doesn't work that way"and you NEVER complained when clinton and obama acted in the SAME WAY! Surprise, surprise!
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:35 AM
 
19,899 posts, read 12,515,796 times
Reputation: 11070
Quote:
Originally Posted by trlhiker View Post
Not to mention who the hell would volunteer to move to Kansas City anyway? If the Dotard wanted to save money, maybe he should stop playing golf so much and forcing the military and others to stay at his resorts which cost so much more than other places. This move was pure political and just outright mean.
I like KC better than DC.


DC traffic is hell; advantage is being closer to mountains, but it is still a drive. Good beaches are a long drive as well- might as well live in KC.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:18 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 867,245 times
Reputation: 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
Why should the USDA be any different then ALL the other fed agencies?

Your "explanation" can be applied to EVERY fed agency.
USDA is a massive Federal agency. Almost certainly it already has field offices providing direct services to farmers. That's not what the Economic Research Service does, even though some of its research touches on food that those farmers may grow.

Most Federal employees are not located in Washington DC. They are assigned to those field offices, or maybe located near resources or people that need them - those who use their services (think Social Security) or local officials. Who would ever locate the National Labs (nuclear) in Washington DC? No reason for much of the Forest Service to be there instead of in the Parks.

Federal employees in DC are not just management staff. There's a reason to concentrate expertise there, that include research economics. Employees both provide expertise to other Federal agencies, Congress, and non-governmental organizations and themselves benefit from interchanges. Who do you think helps Congress develop legislation? Congressional staffers reach out to the executive and independent federal agencies. Absent their participation, there are plenty of lobbyists willing to spoon feed information to Congress. Do you want only the voices of lobbyists?

The Federal government doesn't work like corporations. For example, not many corporations trade employees among each other. The types of employees located in DC - particularly the type of work done by research economists - are often "lent" to other agencies. The practice is called "detailing." For example, those who work in international trade may be at the US Special Trade Representative for a year or so, at Commerce, at Treasury, or in independent trade commissions. This you simply cannot do from thousands of miles away.

Trump does not have the authority to shut down mandated programs (even though they are located within the Executive Department). He cannot (or should not - look at the ongoing flap within NOAA) threaten to fire Federal employees if they won't do his bidding. But he can impact their work by "burying" them. Or changing work conditions where many quit.

Again, look at the type of work that the ERS does - not some other Federal function - and tell me this isn't political.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:31 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 867,245 times
Reputation: 1808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"It is rare to move offices out of DC but it has been done in the past", MANY offices have been moved out of DC in the last couple of decades. As usual the fed NEVER get ssmaller, it GROWS which requires more office space and DC doesn't have enough land to accommodate the growth of the fed.
Land in DC isn't the issue. Many Federal offices are located in suburban Maryland and Virginia where commercial office space is readily available. Other Federal functions have been relocated to close-in or further out states. At least a couple of these moves have been pushed by Congress - not unlike where Congressional representatives compete for military bases that benefit their constituents.

The internet does make it easier to perform some functions outside of DC. For example, another component of the USDA is part of this move - not just the ERS. Know little of what they do. But IMHO, to move the ERS does not pass "the smell test." No cost but a political benefit there. Politicizing the Civil Sevice - influencing the "results" by making their work more difficult is highly undesirable as a basic principal. The Civil Service is paid for by your taxes and works for your benefit as a citizen- not that of the President, who likewise is ultimately responsible to the American people.
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:34 AM
 
30,544 posts, read 16,791,767 times
Reputation: 14165
Would have been better for all of us tax victims if they just let them go, rather than resettling them on our dime like an Indian tribe.
What wouldn't get done in their absence?
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Boston
8,579 posts, read 2,505,489 times
Reputation: 6060
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post
I like KC better than DC.


DC traffic is hell; advantage is being closer to mountains, but it is still a drive. Good beaches are a long drive as well- might as well live in KC.
lmao......

Kansas City is 1,200 miles from the ocean.

DC is 128 miles from the ocean....

https://www.tripsavvy.com/best-beach...ton-dc-1039120
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:12 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,522,540 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
USDA is a massive Federal agency. Almost certainly it already has field offices providing direct services to farmers. That's not what the Economic Research Service does, even though some of its research touches on food that those farmers may grow.

Most Federal employees are not located in Washington DC. They are assigned to those field offices, or maybe located near resources or people that need them - those who use their services (think Social Security) or local officials. Who would ever locate the National Labs (nuclear) in Washington DC? No reason for much of the Forest Service to be there instead of in the Parks.

Federal employees in DC are not just management staff. There's a reason to concentrate expertise there, that include research economics. Employees both provide expertise to other Federal agencies, Congress, and non-governmental organizations and themselves benefit from interchanges. Who do you think helps Congress develop legislation? Congressional staffers reach out to the executive and independent federal agencies. Absent their participation, there are plenty of lobbyists willing to spoon feed information to Congress. Do you want only the voices of lobbyists?

The Federal government doesn't work like corporations. For example, not many corporations trade employees among each other. The types of employees located in DC - particularly the type of work done by research economists - are often "lent" to other agencies. The practice is called "detailing." For example, those who work in international trade may be at the US Special Trade Representative for a year or so, at Commerce, at Treasury, or in independent trade commissions. This you simply cannot do from thousands of miles away.

Trump does not have the authority to shut down mandated programs (even though they are located within the Executive Department). He cannot (or should not - look at the ongoing flap within NOAA) threaten to fire Federal employees if they won't do his bidding. But he can impact their work by "burying" them. Or changing work conditions where many quit.

Again, look at the type of work that the ERS does - not some other Federal function - and tell me this isn't political.
Having worked for 2 separate agencies with offices all over the country, and out, I know bit about how the fed works.

"threaten to fire Federal employees if they won't do his bidding", he CAN fire ANY person who comes under Presidential Appointee, of course some dems in Congress think he CANNOT, unless you think he has tried to fire some one who is NOT.

"He cannot (or should not - look at the ongoing flap within NOAA) threaten to fire Federal employees if they won't do his bidding.

Of course you gobble up ANY negative story out Trump."

"Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross threatened to fire top employees at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) after officials contradicted President Trump’s claim that Alabama could be affected by Hurricane Dorian, according to a report by The New York Times.(surprise, surprise!) The Commerce Department later denied the story in a statement to The Hill.
"The New York Times story is false. Secretary Ross did not threaten to fire any NOAA staff over forecasting and public statements about Hurricane Dorian," the spokesperson told The Hill."

https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...e-contradicted

"and tell me this isn't political." Tell me what agency created in the last 50 years that is NOT political today. Explain why we need a Dept of Education at $68 BILLION a year when education is a state responsibility Name what "good" it has done to improve education.
The EPA has gone WAY OVER what their original charter was, ALL political.

Last edited by Quick Enough; 09-12-2019 at 09:26 AM..
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Old 09-12-2019, 09:30 AM
 
38,197 posts, read 16,522,540 times
Reputation: 8679
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveryLady View Post
Land in DC isn't the issue. Many Federal offices are located in suburban Maryland and Virginia where commercial office space is readily available. Other Federal functions have been relocated to close-in or further out states. At least a couple of these moves have been pushed by Congress - not unlike where Congressional representatives compete for military bases that benefit their constituents.

The internet does make it easier to perform some functions outside of DC. For example, another component of the USDA is part of this move - not just the ERS. Know little of what they do. But IMHO, to move the ERS does not pass "the smell test." No cost but a political benefit there. Politicizing the Civil Sevice - influencing the "results" by making their work more difficult is highly undesirable as a basic principal. The Civil Service is paid for by your taxes and works for your benefit as a citizen- not that of the President, who likewise is ultimately responsible to the American people.
"At least a couple of these moves have been pushed by Congress -" look up which congressman PUSHED to have those located in THEIR districts.

"not unlike where Congressional representatives compete for military bases that benefit their constituents"

Which is WHY we have had 2 BRACS.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Eastern NC
19,888 posts, read 18,024,525 times
Reputation: 17716
Do any of you realize how much it costs to move a federal employee? I am a federal employee who moved because of a Brac. The tax payer paid for me to have a ten day house hunting trip. They paid for my hotel, all my meals, vehicle, and gas. On the 10 day trip I was also given administrative leave meaning I got paid and didn't have to take any leave. It was a 10 day all expenses paid vacation for me and several thousand others who made the move. And when I closed on my house, the tax payer paid for my leave then too. Saving money my butt. It costs move to move people than not.
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