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Old 09-11-2019, 06:40 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
That Dr. Peter Pan in California is power hungry and on a mission. Give him an inch and he will want a mile. There is a poster on here who has said in the past that health insurance companies should raise the premiums of everyone who refuses a vaccination. Do you remember that? Presumably she means everyone, not only parents of young children. Oh, you have a choice. Nobody is going to force you to vaccinate, but there must be "consequences" according to her. Home school your children, today. Tomorrow? Increase your health insurance premiums (adults as well) if you do not comply. They cannot achieve their 95% Herd Immunity with only 25% of the population (children).

Power hungry.
Why do you keep insisting itís only 25% of the population? Vaccinated kids grow up to be vaccinated adults. Yes, there are some vaccines that need to be repeated like the flu shot or require periodic boosters like tetanus, but many others like polio, smallpox, Hep A and B, HPV, measles and mumps give life long immunity. For your 25% to be correct, immunity from childhood vaccines would have to disappear at age 18 and that just isnít so.

I donít think companies (or at least not mine) can charge more for health risks in their group insurance plans. But, they can and do offer credits for healthy choices. For example I get a $100 a month credit on my health insurance for being a non smoker. I get another $40 a month for filling out an annual health assessment and getting a yearly physical. That means my monthly cost for insurance is $65 instead of $205, a savings to me of $1,680 a year.

No one is forcing me to not smoke or to have a yearly physical, but they sure as heck are making it very lucrative for me to do so. If they added a credit for an annual flu shot, thatíd be great with me.

 
Old 09-11-2019, 06:51 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
The recent measles outbreaks have been traceable to adults, not children. Yet school children are still the target of all legislation.
Not true. The Rockland County NY measles outbreak that began in Oct 2018 and was just recently declared over, began when an unvaccinated child traveled to Israel during an active measles outbreak, was infected and returned to the US with the disease. From there it spread to his community and in some cases purposefully via parents hosting measles parties.

Maybe we should bar entry into the US without proof of immunization like some countries do? That would definitely cut down on the importation of measles from travelers coming from abroad as well as unvaccinated US citizens dumb enough to travel to areas with active measles outbreaks.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 06:59 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Not true. The Rockland County NY measles outbreak that began in Oct 2018 and was just recently declared over, began when an unvaccinated child traveled to Israel during an active measles outbreak, was infected and returned to the US with the disease. From there it spread to his community and in some cases purposefully via parents hosting measles parties.

Maybe we should bar entry into the US without proof of immunization like some countries do. That would definitely cut down on the importation of measles from travelers coming from abroad as well as unvaccinated US citizens dumb enough to travel to areas with active measles outbreaks.

Patient zero in California's recent outbreak was an adult. This thread is about the legislation to limit Medical Exemptions for all school children in CA.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:08 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Patient zero in California's recent outbreak was an adult. This thread is about the legislation to limit Medical Exemptions for all school children in CA.
You didnít specify California. I was pointing out children have been patient zero in recent measles outbreaks.

California is not limiting medical exemptions. Thereís no cap on how many can be issued, just oversight to insure doctors are following the guidelines and not giving waivers for non medically supported reasons. Doctors are subject to all kinds of oversight by the State. Are you opposed to all medical oversight or just in this one instance?
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:13 AM
 
6,775 posts, read 3,738,151 times
Reputation: 7612
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
Why do you keep insisting it’s only 25% of the population? Vaccinated kids grow up to be vaccinated adults. Yes, there are some vaccines that need to be repeated like the flu shot or require periodic boosters like tetanus, but many others like polio, smallpox, Hep A and B, HPV, measles and mumps give life long immunity. For your 25% to be correct, immunity from childhood vaccines would have to disappear at age 18 and that just isn’t so.

I don’t think companies (or at least not mine) can charge more for health risks in their group insurance plans. But, they can and do offer credits for healthy choices. For example I get a $100 a month credit on my health insurance for being a non smoker. I get another $40 a month for filling out an annual health assessment and getting a yearly physical. That means my monthly cost for insurance is $65 instead of $205, a savings to me of $1,680 a year.

No one is forcing me to not smoke or to have a yearly physical, but they sure as heck are making it very lucrative for me to do so. If they added a credit for an annual flu shot, that’d be great with me.
Go look up the statistics. Children in 2019 only make up 25% of the entire US population. There have been many, many threads on why people aren't having children. Read the birthrate is now 1.9%.

Why is there a TD and now TDAP (whooping cough) for adults? Waning immunity. There have been cases of fully vaccinated college students with Mumps. More waning immunity.

How many adults have been vaccinated for Hep. A (outbreaks in several states) or Hep. B, like(Newborn) children have?
Catch up adult vaccinations for HPV? What about Pneumonia? Is that contagious? Got those? Not getting into Flu shots.

Ever consider that many of these vaccines weren't around when many adults were children?

As I said on another thread, the school district where I used to work self-insured and did not give incentives for all those Wellness programs. They INCREASED premiums for non-compliance, that wasn't just for vaccinations, but any preventive test an employee did not get. Not just for smokers, but refusing to get a mammogram. I suppose a certain poster on here would love this method. Using a big stick instead of giving carrots, like your insurance did. Consequences like no public school; or give me your $$$$.

Last edited by Jo48; 09-11-2019 at 07:25 AM..
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:24 AM
 
9,943 posts, read 5,971,215 times
Reputation: 9885
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
You didn’t specify California. I was pointing out children have been patient zero in recent measles outbreaks.

California is not limiting medical exemptions. There’s no cap on how many can be issued, just oversight to insure doctors are following the guidelines and not giving waivers for non medically supported reasons. Doctors are subject to all kinds of oversight by the State. Are you opposed to all medical oversight or just in this one instance?

California is specified in the thread title. This thread is also about much more then just measles.

I disagree with your opinion that California is not limiting medical exemptions. Doctors and specialists will be much less likely to issue exemptions for medical reasons if they know that issuing them might lead to an investigation.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:27 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
Go look up the statistics. Children in 2019 only make up 25% of the entire US population. There have been many, many threads on why people aren't having children. Read the birthrate is now 1.9%.

Why is there a TD and now TDAP (whooping cough) for adults? Waning immunity. There have been cases of fully vaccinated college students with Mumps. More waning immunity.

How many adults have been vaccinated for Hep. A (outbreaks in several states) or Hep. B, like(Newborn) children have?
Catch up vaccinations for HPV? What about Pneumonia? Is that contagious?

Ever consider that many of these vaccines weren't around when many adults were children?
Good grief. Yes, kids are 25% of the population, but are NOT the only humans vaccinated. You keep saying herd immunity canít be maintained with just 25% of the population missing the fact that people over 18 have also been and continue to be vaccinated adding to herd immunity.

Are vaccines perfect and provide 100% immunity to 100% of people 100% of the time? No. Neither are seatbelts 100% protection in the event of a car crash and yet most people see the value in wearing one. If you donít see value in vaccines, donít get them.

If you choose not to vaccinate your kids, donít have a medically supported reason not to and live in California plan to figure out educational options other than public schools.
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:30 AM
 
6,833 posts, read 4,722,245 times
Reputation: 13544
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
California is specified in the thread title. This thread is also about much more then just measles.

I disagree with your opinion that California is not limiting medical exemptions. Doctors and specialists will be much less likely to issue exemptions for medical reasons if they know that issuing them might lead to an investigation.
No, they’ll be sure the child qualifies and document the findings that led them to issuing a waiver. If a doctor is following guidelines they’re not going to be sanctioned no matter how many exemptions they sign. I would imagine that if a doctor like a pediatric oncologist has a higher number of exemptions than a general pediatrician, that’s not going to raise any red flags. While the CA gerontologist who was signing waivers for school kids definitely did.

And you didn’t answer my question. Are you opposed to all medical oversight by a state or just this oversight?
 
Old 09-11-2019, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Full time in the RV
2,910 posts, read 6,485,675 times
Reputation: 2496
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Papers please situations. Already happens in order to go to public school and in some jobs. Papers please. Or you are banned.

Waiting for flights. Check vaccination records when you buy a plane ticket. It's coming.
It is already here:
https://www.uscis.gov/news/questions...n-requirements

There are also plenty of countries that require vaccinations to get a visa.

This thread title is misleading. Oversight does not equal an "erosion" of medical exemptions.

I do not get the hysteria from the anti vax crowd. There is information in the links in this thread that dates back to the 40s. Is it a government conspiracy lasting almost 80 years? Do you really think the government could keep that up? What about all the science, including that from other countries (like the climate change thingy)? Is that all false also?

How long have vaccinations been required to attend school?
 
Old 09-11-2019, 08:02 AM
 
2,595 posts, read 709,648 times
Reputation: 2701
California Erodes Medical Exemptions for Vaccines


This is false.

The few children who legitimately have a risk to vaccines and therefore are not vaccinated will be made safer by attending a school that has a vaccinated population. They will not be kept from school. And those parents who choose to put their children at risk from preventable diseases can continue to do so as they find alternative educational sources that will not endanger the Public Health.

And contrary to what a few posters here are implying and spreading no one is forcing anyone to be vaccinated against their will or undermining valid medical exemptions. It is disingenuous to say otherwise and legislation that allows Public Health officials to better protect the Public Health is a no brainer and is not taking away liberties or choice. It will however protect all children in public school from the risks associated with the rising number of bogus medical exemptions.

Refusing vaccination for reasons other than a serious medical condition is unfair and dangerous to those who can’t protect themselves. Those who remain unvaccinated pose a great risk to many, including: all children under 1 year old who are too young to be vaccinated, older adults who don’t know their immunity has lapsed and others with impaired immune systems and those small numbers for whom immunization is medically contraindicated.

The elimination of the personal belief exemptions and verifying the validity of medical exemptions will prevent suffering and save lives. It is the right thing to do.

Vaccines work by protecting individuals, but their strength really lies in the ability to protect one’s neighbors. When there are not enough people within a community who are immunized, we are all at risk.

Personal and religious belief and bogus medical exemptions should be curtailed because some people, whether because of age or compromised immune systems, cannot receive vaccines. They depend on those around them to be protected. Vaccines aren’t the only situation in which we are asked to care about our neighbors. Following traffic laws, drug tests at work, paying taxes — these may go against our beliefs and make us bristle, but we ascribe to them because without this shared responsibility, civil society doesn’t work.

Public health is no different.

An individual parent does not have the right to have their child in a public school if that child is unvaccinated, for the same reason health care workers should not be unvaccinated. It all comes down to a very simple reality: It puts other children at risk.

If you want to rely on the public trust then you have an obligation to the public trust as well, and part of that obligation is not sending your child to the public school, and other public places with children, if they aren’t immunized against preventable, communicable diseases.

When it comes to issues of public health and safety we invariably have laws. Many of these laws are strictly enforced and immutable. For example, we don’t allow philosophical exemptions to restraining young children in car seats or smoking in restaurants or stopping at stop signs.

People of course have the right to put their own child at risk and that is their choice, but they do not have the right to put everyone else in society at risk due to their unfounded fears and debunked opinions and personal beliefs.

Last edited by corpgypsy; 09-11-2019 at 08:52 AM..
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